Month: September 2022

00;00;01;05 – 00;00;19;15
Anika
Welcome to Your Brand Amplified the podcast where we interview marketers, publicists and brands to learn their stories, what makes them tick and tips and tricks that make a difference. I’m so excited to be here today on your brand amplified with Alex Brueckmann. Alex, welcome to the show.

00;00;20;00 – 00;00;21;04
Alex Brueckmann
Thank you very much for having me Anika.

00;00;21;17 – 00;00;53;10
Anika
Absolutely. So you are originally from Germany. You now live in Canada. We’re on the same – we’re both on the West Coast, just different countries. And you have quite an extensive background in business, having launched multiple businesses. And now I was just talking to you before we push record about being a strategist, so I’d love for you to share a little bit about your journey and what brought you from Europe and your businesses to Canada and then how you parlayed that into what you do now.

00;00;54;05 – 00;01;01;08
Alex Brueckmann
This is actually a very long story, but I don’t want to bore anyone Let let let me give you the executive summary of that.

00;01;01;08 – 00;01;01;28
Anika
OK.

00;01;01;28 – 00;01;22;17
Alex Brueckmann
So when my background is in in radio journalism, actually, that’s where I started. And later then went to university and studied business administration. I spiraled back into the business world, into a media corporation where I then earned my first rights around business strategy and worked a lot with the big consulting companies.

00;01;22;17 – 00;01;35;10
Alex Brueckmann
And that’s their client, basically. And then later became a consultant myself. However, what I do is not typically consulting. I don’t come in and tell you what I think you should do.

00;01;35;10 – 00;01;35;24
Anika
OK.

00;01;35;24 – 00;01;44;01
Alex Brueckmann
I come in and help you figure out what you want to do based on where you feel you want to go. And of course, I give you my opinion on that if you want it.

00;01;44;01 – 00;02;29;06
Alex Brueckmann
But it’s not about me. It’s about you and the process that I gave my clients through is really about creating clarity for them so that it works for them when I’m gone. The biggest problem that I’ve often seen in my career is consultants coming in, handing over knowledge, ideas, processes. They leave and everything goes down the drain because no one actually has accountability for their work. So to avoid that is to avoid that to my clients waste their money. I help them embrace ownership and do something like that. And that’s what in the end also brought me to where I am today, apart from not being in the same country anymore. So that is an entirely different story. You know, as they say, there’s always a girl.

00;02;29;17 – 00;02;51;01
Alex Brueckmann
So in my case, that girl wanted to go home to Canada. And yeah, that’s when I sat down with my business partner and we had the conversation of how I can transition into this new world. We made it work and yeah, almost three years ago we came to Canada and. Wait a second. Two years ago.

00;02;51;12 – 00;02;51;29
Anika
Oh, OK.

00;02;52;14 – 00;02;56;17
Alex Brueckmann
And yeah, ever since I’ve been building a life and a business here.

00;02;56;25 – 00;03;21;09
Anika
Nice. That’s wonderful. You know, I’ve seen a thread between you and my last three guests in that we in those conversations, we’ve talked a lot about people who have gone through the experience of being in business, maybe being on the corporate side, transitioned into really more of a role of helping and guiding people, but also taking this quantum leap forward.

00;03;21;21 – 00;03;51;02
Anika
And I like what you’re saying about accountability. My last guest and I were just talking about how one of my words for this year is intentionality and also focus. And I think as business owners and people in companies, even in corporate, we just go, go, go, go, go. We’re not always thinking and remembering the strategy. And so I want to dive into a little bit about what a strategist does a little more, because you said, you know, it’s not really about the title.

00;03;51;02 – 00;04;10;03
Anika
It’s really about how you actually help people achieve goals. And not, as you said, not just coming in and saying, this is what you should do and here’s the roadmap and then there’s no accountability. It just goes out the window. I think a lot of times people get trainings or they work with people. And that’s exactly what happens is, oh, that was so wonderful.

00;04;10;03 – 00;04;25;08
Anika
I learned so much, so inspired. And then the person leaves and then you get back into the minutia and the busyness of what you have in front of you right then and not thinking clearly about what it should look like in the future and how to project out.

00;04;26;15 – 00;05;00;02
Alex Brueckmann
Erm, intentional intentionality is I love that. I actually use that a lot on my website. There’s tons of free resources for business owners and entrepreneurs. One of the most important ones is the intentional strategy toolkit. And that that topic is so important because there is just not enough time in the day to do all the things that we want to do and therefore deciding with intent what you want to do and being intentional about how you use your time in the best possible way that truly matters for a lot of businesses.

00;05;00;19 – 00;05;25;04
Alex Brueckmann
I just came back from, from a workshop that I ran for a client. The owner was so overwhelmed. We met the night before. She was just we came back to the hotel at around 10:30 and she told me she would have to work for clients until 1 a.m. at the office today. And so totally overwhelmed and it was really hard to see her that way.

00;05;25;04 – 00;05;45;21
Alex Brueckmann
And on the next day, she decided with intention that she will not open her computer and she switched off her phone to allow herself to be fully present on that day in that workshop. And after the after the workshop, she turned on her phone. It’s like it’s not as bad as I thought it would be. Not that many messages.

00;05;47;13 – 00;06;18;09
Alex Brueckmann
And she said something that really that really struck me. She said you helped us move from despair to hope within one day. And that is something that describes and it’s a good answer to your question. That is what you do as a strategist. You help people create that future that they want to hold in their hands. And rather than giving them medication, you help them go to the root causes and change the root causes.

00;06;18;22 – 00;06;50;17
Alex Brueckmann
And because you don’t, you don’t take something and shove it down their throats, but you gently open doors and let them walk through, they realize an experience on their own. That they have all the knowledge that it takes. It’s never about knowledge. It’s about intentionality. It’s about what you do and what you do. Not and then bringing those things into a great connection, those things that you want to do, prioritize them accordingly, put them into a process that works for you.

00;06;50;27 – 00;07;11;01
Alex Brueckmann
And so in a nutshell, what I do is I help them to find where they want to be and how they get there and how they prioritize how they prioritize on the way. That is, in a nutshell, what a good strategist does. It’s not telling them some tactics in, let’s say, in marketing or in another subject that is consulting.

00;07;11;17 – 00;07;42;05
Alex Brueckmann
And of course, the term “strategist” is all around and everyone uses it, but you need to look behind the surface to understand what the person actually does for you. The value that a strategist produces for you is always a different one because this is not a defined term. So when you when you want to work with someone that allows you to explore based on your own intent and your own resources, find someone who facilitates a process for you and not someone who tells you what they think you should do.

00;07;42;10 – 00;08;02;24
Anika
Yeah. Yeah. Because not the same solution is not going to work for everybody based on where we are in our business or our personalities or what’s going on in our lives. I know that you have a family. I have a son. I believe I have a daughter. So a lot of my time is spent, you know, OK, I can do this work and then I need to take her to school.

00;08;02;29 – 00;08;23;24
Anika
Then I can get this much done. Then I pick her up, then I take her to activity. Then when can I get back to this call or this email? Or this proposal? So we have to take all of those things into consideration as whole people and whole beings. And so like it sounds like to me you’re also talking about like a mindset shift really when you said you took clients from despair to hope.

00;08;23;29 – 00;08;26;22
Anika
That’s I got chills. That’s very powerful.

00;08;27;22 – 00;08;36;24
Alex Brueckmann
Mindset plays a huge role. And it often has to do with moving from FOMO to JOMO. From the fear of missing out to the joy of missing out.

00;08;36;27 – 00;08;37;20
Anika
Oh, nice.

00;08;37;20 – 00;09;02;28
Alex Brueckmann
Understanding why you don’t need things. So every one of us has experienced this fear of missing out. It’s just in our nature that allowing yourself to step into your power and deciding, I don’t have fear of missing out because there is nothing to miss out on because what I want to achieve is not going to be built with this, this or that part.

00;09;02;28 – 00;09;11;11
Alex Brueckmann
So thank you, but no thank you. And you let go of it. And all of a sudden it doesn’t. It’s not important anymore. How many followers you have an Instagram, for example.

00;09;11;11 – 00;09;11;18
Anika
Right.

00;09;11;18 – 00;09;41;08
Alex Brueckmann
And whether anyone else does the next cool thing in their reels or God knows what, because you realize it’s not what drives your business anyway. So stripping away ego patterns, helping people understand how to how to create how to how to create speed over perfection, for example, and all of these different aspects of mindset play a hugely important role but in the end, I don’t teach them about mindsets.

00;09;41;09 – 00;10;02;24
Alex Brueckmann
I help them understand where they want to go and how to get there, and they kind of switch their mindset on their own in that process because it’s not me going in and telling you you need to change your mindset and then seeing Whoa, I created that in a day. You’ve got to be kidding. And this is so empowering and so motivating.

00;10;03;10 – 00;10;10;05
Alex Brueckmann
It’s awesome to see it always lights me up. My eyes start just blinking when I see this. It’s amazing.

00;10;10;08 – 00;10;21;06
Anika
Oh, that’s so cool. So when you work with somebody, for instance, in this one day workshop, then do you do follow up sessions, follow up workshops, all of that?

00;10;21;19 – 00;10;50;28
Alex Brueckmann
They’re often embedded in a longer process and longer in that sense means a few weeks so there are few phone calls prior to that session to prepare certain aspects that we need and very often it’s work that can be done without me. So therefore these sessions might, these phone calls might take 60 to 90 minutes stretched over four weeks maybe, so that people have time in between these calls to actually work on those topics.

00;10;51;22 – 00;11;18;02
Alex Brueckmann
Then we would have a workshop in there maybe three, four or five phone calls after that where I become sort of an accountability partner to really move things forward. Yeah, because we all know how it works. You have great inspiration. You created an awesome plan and then all of a sudden life takes over again. So holding that space over an extended period is often really helpful for my clients.

00;11;18;13 – 00;11;37;06
Alex Brueckmann
But it’s nothing that is, first of all, breaking the bank. So we’re not talking about a consulting project over six months. It costs half a million we’re talking about a minimally invasive support structure that you that you set up in order to move forward. You wanted to create into reality.

00;11;37;06 – 00;12;03;27
Anika
Yeah. Yeah, that’s really beautiful. And I’m laughing at what you said about moving from FOMO to JOMO and the Joy of Missing Out, because I recently read an article from Warren Buffett that was about Warren Buffett and how he says, no, he’s really focused and he says no to almost everything. And I think like you were also saying, as a business owner or an entrepreneur, it’s very easy to get caught up in.

00;12;04;05 – 00;12;22;04
Anika
Well, we have to be here. We have to be here. Everybody says you have to do a Facebook group if you’re doing X, Y, Z kind of business or you have to post a certain number of times or you have to go to all of these events to network but who are you networking with? And is that really going to help you reach your goal, or is that really the right audience and the thing that’s going to drive your business?

00;12;22;13 – 00;12;43;12
Anika
And so having somebody there who can kind of help redirect and cut through that so that somebody can say, OK, you know, this is really my goal. Now I can take action steps and put kind of blinders on so that I can only move forward towards that. It’s very powerful and it’s something we need reminder. We need accountability.

00;12;43;12 – 00;13;02;08
Anika
We need somebody who’s going to come in and help us because otherwise it does get very overwhelming. I’m completely commiserating with that client of yours. You know, thinking about like, oh, my gosh, I have so much to do and so much going on and we forget, OK, stop, breathe. Redirect.

00;13;02;26 – 00;13;27;03
Alex Brueckmann
And it’s not about killing the joy in your business, but it’s not about only focusing on business money and processes. Not at all. It’s the opposite. It’s standing in who you are as a business owner, being fully in line with the impact that you want to create and being on purpose. All the time that there is no bigger fun than that.

00;13;27;03 – 00;13;47;10
Alex Brueckmann
So people sometimes feel they would pigeonhole themselves when they are too focused on some things because they are going to miss out again. It’s the fear of missing out, miss out on some opportunities that might come their way. But the thing is, once you have that structure in place, every opportunity that comes your way, you can just take it, take a look at it and be like, interesting.

00;13;47;10 – 00;14;05;09
Alex Brueckmann
Is that actually an opportunity or is that just a shiny object? And I just let it pass. So it’s not that you’ve got to miss out on anything. You take conscious decisions, whether it is for you or not, not just because someone else says you should do benchmarking against your business and what you want to achieve. Yeah. And then you say, Hey, welcome to my world.

00;14;05;09 – 00;14;07;08
Alex Brueckmann
Or you say, Thanks, but no thanks.

00;14;07;25 – 00;14;25;14
Anika
Now, do you find when you’re working with businesses that sometimes they don’t know who they want to be or where they want to go? Maybe they just they start this business, they have this great big idea, but they don’t have those, you know, they don’t know I need X amount of clients or this much in revenue or they don’t have those goalposts.

00;14;29;03 – 00;14;50;26
Alex Brueckmann
Not on that fundamental level. The businesses that I work with are typically businesses, $1,000,000 revenue plus. So these people have been in business for quite some time. These are not newbies. They’re not starting out with some side hustle or things like that. They’re serious about what they do and they really know what they do. So it’s not that they don’t have clear goals or a lack of understanding of how business works.

00;14;50;29 – 00;15;09;08
Alex Brueckmann
Yeah, it’s but the first part of your question is totally relevant. They often don’t really know exactly what they want to build and how it should look like in some years down the road. So they run a fairly successful business. They are profitable, but it’s either that they have growth goals that they, for whichever reason, miss every year.

00;15;09;16 – 00;15;12;22
Alex Brueckmann
So we take a look at what why that is.

00;15;12;22 – 00;15;13;16
Anika
Yeah.

00;15;13;16 – 00;15;31;13
Alex Brueckmann
And we help them get it straight or sometimes it’s just that they kind of fell out of love with what they’ve been doing for so long, even if it brought them money that they want it and they realize that they have maybe ten, ten more years to go before they finally let go of work and focus more on, on.

00;15;31;19 – 00;15;51;28
Alex Brueckmann
Yeah. The fun side of life. And so it’s often about helping them fall back in love with their business by realigning who they are and what they want to see in the world with what they do for a living. And thereby you create that fun space at work where everything that you do resonates with who you are.

00;15;53;23 – 00;16;13;03
Anika
So what inspired you to get into this line of work from going from radio journalism in business? What made you go, Oh, wait, this is what I’m very passionate about, and I know that I can really help people and help these million dollar plus companies achieve this goal.

00;16;13;03 – 00;16;36;15
Alex Brueckmann
What happens if you don’t do it? I I worked for a business that has been neglected, the need for strategic planning and properly linking what they do to a greater good for way too long because they were so darn profitable that that that they felt there is no need for that. They just forgot it and became very complacent in the process.

00;16;37;10 – 00;17;09;03
Alex Brueckmann
And when those high revenues and high profit margins sort of disappeared over time, the moment they reacted, it was already too late. And we tried to restructure the business. We tried everything that we could to save it. But in the end, restructuring is not strategy. Restructuring is cutting off pieces that don’t work anymore. And I had to see how thousands of people lost their jobs.

00;17;09;03 – 00;17;09;27
Anika
Oh, my God.

00;17;10;15 – 00;17;31;27
Alex Brueckmann
It make me feel horrible because my father at the beginning of his fifties also lost his job. And I realized what it does to a family and how extremely difficult it can be to get back into the workforce at that age. And I felt partly personally responsible for that, even if I only came into the business when the good times were gone.

00;17;32;10 – 00;18;04;20
Alex Brueckmann
But we were not able to turn it around in a way that we want it. And that hurt me personally so much that I said, this is something that I can do. I can help businesses avoid to wait and to be complacent until it’s too late. I can help these people and these businesses to create what we call curse reinforcing circles that build the future while the businesses are doing well, not wait until it’s not going well anymore, because then strategy doesn’t work anymore.

00;18;04;21 – 00;18;35;17
Alex Brueckmann
Then we’re talking about restructuring and you really don’t want to be there. It’s not about regaining balance. It’s about reinforcing creating a growth loop, reinforcing circles that help you build something when you experience the good times, when you come to me and you say, Oh, our business is heavily under pressure, I will not work with you. I can only work with you when you have the mental capacity to focus on what’s possible and you have enough runway to get it off the ground.

00;18;36;00 – 00;18;40;25
Alex Brueckmann
If you run out of runway, you need a restructuring consultant. You don’t need me.

00;18;41;07 – 00;18;44;20
Anika
Yeah. So you want to be proactive rather than reactive.

00;18;44;28 – 00;18;45;14
Alex Brueckmann
Exactly.

00;18;45;19 – 00;19;06;09
Anika
Yeah. Nice. And what is- you talked about one example of somebody who was able to really get to that joy in a day know workshop. What are some other aha moments that you’ve seen with clients? That continued to bring you joy in the work that you do?

00;19;08;29 – 00;19;30;17
Alex Brueckmann
Let me put it that way. The work that I do and what I bring a certain knowledge on how to get to a certain point. So I bring my toolbox and in there, there are several tools and they are not made out of fairy dust. This is this is real stuff. And I’m not saying there are no fairies, so I don’t want to offend.

00;19;31;00 – 00;19;50;03
Alex Brueckmann
If you believe in fairies, go for it. It’s just really about the process knowledge that I bring, the tools that I bring that are sometimes just like, oh, I didn’t know that existed and now I get it. So and I don’t use these tools. I just hand them over. I help them with these tools, but they work with them.

00;19;50;19 – 00;20;11;16
Alex Brueckmann
And all of a sudden it’s not only about understanding what’s possible, but it’s also understanding how to do it. So by going through these through these workshops with me, for example, not only do they build where they want to be and how to get there, they also know how to do it next time on their own. They don’t need me when they want to do it again because they have the tools in their hands.

00;20;11;16 – 00;20;20;27
Alex Brueckmann
They can just do it. Yeah, and that is pretty cool for people because they don’t feel locked in if you know what I mean. They don’t have to go back to me. I don’t hold a secret key or anything. I give it up.

00;20;22;14 – 00;20;43;08
Anika
Yeah. I mean, you you have several resources on your website, even for people to tool around and look at different things. So what continues to inspire you and what do you see yourself doing next? How do you see yourself extending what you’re doing now? I mean, obviously expand into another country by virtue of moving.

00;20;45;13 – 00;21;10;15
Alex Brueckmann
So me it’s really about taking the experience and knowledge that I have and packaging it in a way that it is accessible for as many people as possible that don’t have a business background. So I don’t what I really didn’t enjoy and working for large corporations for a long time is the kind of lingo that’s being used. It’s often some sort of insights speak with terminology that is just not human.

00;21;10;16 – 00;21;36;16
Alex Brueckmann
That’s just weird words that some highlight strategy consultants feel they need in order to prove their value. I use normal people language when I talk about these things so that everyone understands that and repackaging it in a way and and building products around it and services around it that people can just use without me. That is currently what what I’m looking at.

00;21;36;16 – 00;21;59;05
Alex Brueckmann
So if you already said anyhow, there’s a lot of free stuff on my website just to experiment with it, you don’t need me to start working on these things, but hey, maybe these tools help you. And for example, I just finished writing two books, so one will come out in 2022 the other one likely in 2023. Again I just give it away, I just write it down the entire process, how it works, the tools, everything.

00;21;59;20 – 00;22;12;11
Alex Brueckmann
I just really want to help people get their businesses off the ground, build the future that they want, create the impact and the life that they want to see. And if I can have my $0.05, maybe two, that’s also fine.

00;22;12;19 – 00;22;33;25
Anika
Yeah, I feel like especially now, you know, you hear about the great resignation and you hear about people really trying to hone in on what they’re doing. And certainly many of those people will probably be future customers of yours clients because they will be able to come up with a great idea that will bring them the million dollar plus in revenue.

00;22;34;06 – 00;22;47;14
Anika
Right? Do you usually work when you’re working with companies with is there usually like a solo entrepreneur who started this business and built it up, or is it more corporations or is it a bit of both?

00;22;48;21 – 00;22;56;13
Alex Brueckmann
I work for some of the biggest brands in the world. At the same time, I work with the smallest business I currently work with is run by two women.

00;22;56;13 – 00;22;56;24
Anika
Wow.

00;22;56;24 – 00;23;08;04
Alex Brueckmann
And I enjoy both. But I’m moving more and more away from the large businesses because I see that the impact that I can have is bigger with the small businesses.

00;23;08;04 – 00;23;27;10
Alex Brueckmann
It’s just that the personal connection, the individual joy is bigger with large organizations. Don’t get me wrong, you impact thousands of people at the same time with the work that you do. But most of the time when the effects materialize, you weren’t around anymore because they take so long to get these things done, because these are complex organizations.

00;23;28;08 – 00;23;53;24
Alex Brueckmann
I’ve done that for more than 15 years, and I really enjoyed it. It’s now time for me to help people that want to build smaller businesses that are still small. Not to say that they can’t be big or that they won’t grow, but it’s really more about the personal connection that I’ve built with the business owners that helps them to take the tools and do something with it.

00;23;54;02 – 00;23;54;13
Anika
Yeah.

00;23;54;13 – 00;24;13;28
Alex Brueckmann
Without needing me all the way through. I feel like a Kickstarter or sometime, you know, some of them and how it’s and then they just run on their own. I don’t need to run with them all the time. If they want to have me around from time to time, that’s fine. But I’m not doing these huge projects anymore that consume a big chunk of my own time.

00;24;14;07 – 00;24;20;04
Alex Brueckmann
Because as you already said, I became a father two years ago, and that counts more than any money in the world.

00;24;20;11 – 00;24;55;29
Anika
It’s beautiful. Such a wonderful thing. What was it hard to make that transition when you moved personally and professionally? Because you have to find yourself, find new clients you know, network in a different way. Even though we are global community, there’s still those barriers. I think the last two years probably helped decrease the distance a little more when we’re all sitting at home figuring things out and how wonderful that you could be home and have that time with your family while you’re also helping businesses.

00;24;57;03 – 00;25;16;04
Alex Brueckmann
We don’t know how to answer that question. Was it difficult? Yes, of course it was horrible. We moved in March 2020. It was Frankfurt Airport, one of the biggest airports in Europe, completely dark. No one there. Military police running around with machine guns and you’re like, Do you want to shoot that virus out? What what’s going on here?

00;25;16;14 – 00;26;04;17
Alex Brueckmann
Doesn’t make sense because we were also afraid no one knew anything at that point in time. And you pack your life up in seven suitcases and move. And of course, if you don’t know anyone, I mean, Stephanie’s family lives here. So we did know people and people helped us settle in. But it was super difficult to live on our other continent away from my family now. And just being afraid all the time of what’s going on with them and how they are feeling. Of course, it was tough from a business perspective. The pandemic probably helped me. So when I when I remember taking an active just taking stock, asking myself what if what you did in the past 15 years, is this what you want to do in the future?

00;26;04;19 – 00;26;05;15
Anika
Yeah.

00;26;05;15 – 00;26;39;20
Alex Brueckmann
And I consciously took a decision. No, it’s not. I will take a certain part of that and I will I will pivot to serve a different target group in a different niche and use what I know and create valuable resources that I give people from books to toolkits to anything. Even this podcast, when you help women, when you, when you decide to do different things than before, I don’t think that in normal times this would have been my go to, if you know what I mean.

00;26;39;20 – 00;26;40;01
Anika
Yeah.

00;26;40;01 – 00;26;56;09
Alex Brueckmann
I needed this external trigger to take that look in the mirror and ask and ask myself, is there anything else you would like to do? Because right now the world has stopped. You have permission to think and to rethink. And that was that was a valuable learning for me.

00;26;56;28 – 00;27;23;16
Anika
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s something that you can then impart on your clients My mom lives in Thailand, so I very much can have empathy for what you had to go through. Not seeing her and waiting and seeing, you know, when can people get vaccinated or when people go to another country and what are the rules in each country and all of that, it’s very difficult to navigate and I was one of those people who my business actually exploded during the pandemic.

00;27;24;28 – 00;27;43;05
Anika
And so I like I could have used to you, you know, last year when I was thinking, OK, am I going to stay with this or what am I going to do next? I think that’s a very- you know it’s at that moment when a business owner wants to pivot or wants to look at, OK, I have this much.

00;27;43;17 – 00;27;48;07
Anika
Yeah, how can I extend this and who do I want to be when I grow up? In a sense.

00;27;51;11 – 00;28;17;03
Alex Brueckmann
I believe many business owners should regularly and basically all business owners should regularly reevaluate where they are and whether this is really what they set out for. And if they find that they kind of lost their way, then recalibrate and ask yourself what it is that’s missing and what it is that is good. Don’t just walk away from it.

00;28;17;17 – 00;28;33;09
Alex Brueckmann
There are too many business owners scared to walk away and pivot when it’s too early or when pivoting is actually not the right thing to do because they kind of fell out of love or they found something that is truly hard and just because they don’t have the tools in your hands does not mean you are in the wrong way.

00;28;33;24 – 00;28;56;20
Alex Brueckmann
Sometimes it’s really about finding someone that helps you make sense out of things. And if you then want to take a decision and walk away from it and start over and do something else, do it. But don’t take that decision silently. On your own somewhere deep down in your thoughts. This is something that you probably build something of value.

00;28;56;21 – 00;28;57;26
Alex Brueckmann
Don’t just walk away from it.

00;28;59;09 – 00;29;27;23
Anika
And when you’re working with the businesses that you work with, does it get to that point? Sometimes is it usually the joy people get to from despair to joy, or sometimes do they go through the process and realize, oh, this is that is time to walk away or it is time to, you know, make a big shift that’s going to change the entire scope of the business, maybe still keep the parts that are making the revenue.

00;29;27;23 – 00;29;33;03
Anika
But just take out all the other maybe that you don’t want to just laugh.

00;29;33;03 – 00;29;54;22
Alex Brueckmann
But let me put it that way Anika; the moment you bring me in, you can bet that it will be something afterwards that you have never thought of, because that’s the whole point about bringing someone like me. And yes, you don’t create a new strategy without massive change and opportunity. Otherwise it’s not worth the paper it’s written on.

00;29;54;22 – 00;30;22;17
Alex Brueckmann
Then it’s not a strategy, but a business continuity plan or or an operation excellence plan. If you bring someone like me in, you need to be prepared to go deep and allow yourself and give yourself the space to re-evaluate whether what you’re doing is the right thing or whether you keep a certain core of it and build something that excites you again. Otherwise, you don’t need me.

00;30;22;29 – 00;30;44;10
Anika
Oh, yeah. I love the positivity and how you all are looking at how to make things move forward, right? Not take a step backwards, not, you know, destroy everything just to really say, OK, there is a solution here, and let’s walk through that and figure out what that is.

00;30;46;00 – 00;30;51;14
Alex Brueckmann
What can I build? What I don’t? What do I not know yet? Where am I? Not yet?

00;30;51;14 – 00;30;51;26
Anika
Yeah.

00;30;51;26 – 00;31;03;21
Alex Brueckmann
It’s not about hitting yourself over the head for not knowing something in the past. It’s about just allowing yourself to grow personally and professionally and embracing the joy of it.

00;31;04;03 – 00;31;31;00
Anika
Yeah, wonderful. If somebody wanted to, your website, of course, will be in the show notes and resources, but what are some ways that people can learn more about you? On social media? Or if they want to work with you, do you give consultations? Should they go first and like, look at all the resources and I know you have like different discussion topics and people speaking and you know, there’s just a plethora of information.

00;31;32;04 – 00;31;53;10
Alex Brueckmann
I think, depending on where you are. So if you run a business that’s around let’s say, a million plus in revenue and you feel like you need someone like me, just give me a call, the contact details on the website and sit steady there. Just book a call and we talk. Yeah. If you run a smaller business, check out the free resources.

00;31;54;01 – 00;32;16;11
Alex Brueckmann
You don’t necessarily need to spend money you can take those resources and maybe start the process without me and experiment with it. And if you feel at some point in time you need a nudge again, go my work site book called It’s Very Simple. And of course, I mean, there’s tons of information out there. I don’t know, maybe 100 podcast interviews.

00;32;16;23 – 00;32;45;00
Alex Brueckmann
If, if you Google my name on Spotify or any other podcast platform, there’s just things that can help you kick start your thinking, not necessarily the entire process, but some things that might inspire you. I hold keynotes and all these things that that help people see their business from a new perspective, and that’s sometimes all it needs. You don’t necessarily need to spend money, but that don’t turn you away.

00;32;45;00 – 00;32;50;02
Alex Brueckmann
So if you really want to work with me, have you be in touch. Be my guest. I just I just love working with people.

00;32;50;12 – 00;32;59;07
Anika
Yeah, that that’s very evident and really comes through. And so when you’re talking about your books, did you set it out to be a two book series?

00;32;59;25 – 00;33;02;28
Alex Brueckmann
No, those two businesses are and they don’t have anything to do with each other.

00;33;03;12 – 00;33;03;24
Anika
Ah. OK.

00;33;04;06 – 00;33;29;21
Alex Brueckmann
So the first book that will come out is a multi author; an anthology that I created with people that I ran a business summit with so we had a business summit in February 2022 where I invited 45 speakers from five continents to help people build businesses that they love. And some of these ideas were absolutely exceptional.

00;33;30;02 – 00;33;46;29
Alex Brueckmann
And I asked these speakers and authors whether they want to contribute a chapter to that book. So the book will be all about entrepreneurship, leadership and self leadership. So the topic of How do I create a culture and a business that, yeah, this is on purpose.

00;33;46;29 – 00;33;47;07
Anika
Yeah.

00;33;47;07 – 00;33;54;17
Alex Brueckmann
And these people they include Marshall Goldsmith, 100 coaches, New York Times best selling author.

00;33;54;17 – 00;34;20;17
Alex Brueckmann
So they really do have very valuable messages. And my job is to weave them together and have this multi chapter book so that you can have a full meal in every chapter. But there’s also a greater arc that I that I create where things come together. And my second book, which will likely come out in 2023 is based on the work that I do with my clients.

00;34;20;17 – 00;34;37;09
Alex Brueckmann
It really explains every step of the way. It gives the way, the process, the elements, the exercises, the resources so I actually hope that people take this book and just do it. They don’t, they just do it. They can, they can run with it and do it on their own.

00;34;37;09 – 00;35;02;16
Anika
Wow. And will you be holding some workshops? So, to go with your book for next year. For instance, if there were small businesses that didn’t qualify yet, maybe they were just slightly under the million dollar mark, but they buy your book, they really want to work through the tools. Maybe you have this plan, maybe this is a new idea, but doing a workshop where people can pay to get your expertise and work through the book together at the same time.

00;35;03;01 – 00;35;30;07
Alex Brueckmann
It will be an online course based on the content in the book that you can go through with a ton of exercises with it so that you basically- I guide you through the process, but it’s not me doing it live with you on site. It’s on your own. In your own speed, at your own time. And it’s something that would probably help, especially new business owners that maybe not even have started that business.

00;35;30;07 – 00;35;59;23
Alex Brueckmann
It’s really about doing that groundwork, that million dollar mark that I mentioned that is not carved in stone. I also work with businesses that are smaller, but it needs to make sense for the state where the business is in if you come to me and you’re thinking about building a business, take my resources, run with them, come back when the time is right for the work that I do, needs a realistic environment, needs it needs to be grounded in a business’s day to day work.

00;36;00;26 – 00;36;02;09
Alex Brueckmann
It can’t be theoretic.

00;36;02;09 – 00;36;16;15
Anika
Yeah. Wonderful. Well, I often ask this question and sometimes it puts people on the spot and sometimes it doesn’t. But I want to know, is there a certain quote that you love or a mantra that you live by?

00;36;18;08 – 00;36;39;29
Alex Brueckmann
Don’t go for second best, baby. And yes, that’s the Madonna song reference. It’s it’s something that my ex wife once told me at the very beginning of my academic career, and I owe her the world for putting that into my head. Because from there, things massively shifted for me.

00;36;39;29 – 00;36;41;03
Anika
Wow.

00;36;41;03 – 00;36;51;28
Alex Brueckmann
If you if you ask yourself what you want in life and if you ask yourself at every step of the way, what would be the best thing to do, then you do the right thing.

00;36;52;16 – 00;37;26;02
Alex Brueckmann
You don’t go for compromises that don’t make sense, that don’t feel right anymore. You build something for the long term and not for short term gains. And yeah, you start playing the long game, not the hustle and bustle and daily busy stuff. And yeah, don’t go for second best. And this comes down to personal relationships. If you realize that what used to be friends have become toxic relationships, let go.

00;37;26;09 – 00;37;38;18
Alex Brueckmann
If it comes to your romantic relationships, never go for second best, go for what is the right thing for you. And that is something that inspires me every day.

00;37;39;08 – 00;37;40;21
Anika
And that song is going through my head now.

00;37;41;14 – 00;37;42;05
Alex Brueckmann
Sorry about that.

00;37;42;25 – 00;38;02;09
Anika
But it’s very it’s very inspirational. And it is I think there are a lot of gems in this conversation that people will be able to pull out that will add a lot of value and insight into our whole life journey. So whether it’s, you know, the business, is there anything else that you’d like to leave with our audience today?

00;38;03;09 – 00;38;09;12
Alex Brueckmann
Think we covered basically a lot more than I thought. So this is an exciting conversation Anika, I really enjoyed it.

00;38;09;13 – 00;38;29;21
Anika
Oh, good. Well, that’s I know. I was like, I like to have really organic conversation. It tends to kind of see where we are going to take it. And I think it helps me get to learn a lot more about you and who you are as a person and your business and how you approach things. And I feel like that really adds more value to our listeners, and I hope that they agree and pretty sure that they do as well.

00;38;30;06 – 00;38;33;23
Alex Brueckmann
If they don’t, hey, reach out and tell me. I’m as curious to learn about everyone out there.

00;38;33;23 – 00;38;54;06
Anika
Awesome. Well, Alex, thank you so much. I really enjoyed our conversation. You know, when we were getting on, I was like, oh, I was a little bit late. It’s like it’s a frantic Friday and I feel so much more calm now and grounded and like, OK, you know what? Yeah, don’t go for second best. Now. I’m going to work on that.

00;38;54;19 – 00;39;15;04
Anika
So I hope that our listeners got a lot out of today’s conversation. I’ll have all of your information in the show notes so people can go to your website, download those resources and really work on- with intentionality in their businesses. So thank you. I really appreciate you being on today. And to our audience, thank you for coming back for another week.

00;39;15;04 – 00;39;25;16
Anika
And I’ll be back next week for another listen. Want more? Check out AmplifywithAnika.com or follow me on socials @Amplifywithanika.

00;00;01;05 – 00;00;32;20
Anika
Welcome to Your Brand Amplified the podcast where we interview marketers, publicists and brands to learn their stories, what makes them tick and tips and tricks that make a difference. I’m so excited to be back for another week of Your Brand Amplified. I am your host, Anika Jackson, and I am here with Bharat Kanodia, who will be speaking about a topic that’s very relevant to the audience and the listeners of our program, but something we haven’t talked about before which is valuation and what it’s worth.

00;00;32;20 – 00;00;38;29
Anika
What is your business worth and how do you get there and why is it important? Brad, welcome to our show today.

00;00;39;11 – 00;00;42;05
Bharat Kanodia
Anika, thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.

00;00;42;11 – 00;01;02;08
Anika
Absolutely. Happy Friday. I am so excited to have you on. As I said, I have worked with a lot of startups on the PR side to try to help them to get press, to get in front of, you know, potential investors in a different way. And so what you do is something that I think is really important for them to understand.

00;01;03;09 – 00;01;11;01
Anika
And I’d love for you to first talk about who you are and how you got on this journey. And have you always been passionate about valuation?

00;01;12;09 – 00;01;17;17
Bharat Kanodia
I don’t know if I’ve been passionate about it. It helps when you are passionate about it.

00;01;19;29 – 00;01;36;09
Bharat Kanodia
You know, valuation was my first job out of college, and it turned out I was half good at it and I stuck with it. So yeah, I’ve been in valuation all my career and I’ve done all kinds of interesting, unique or weird things in valuation. So it’s been it’s been a great journey.

00;01;36;27 – 00;02;06;20
Anika
Well, you have quite the resume. You have worked on valuation, Uber, Airbnb, DoorDash, GE, Tesla, assets like the Golden Gate Bridge, airports, things that I think the everyday layperson wouldn’t think of in these terms. So will you please explain a little bit about the process of valuation and what are some of the things that you do? And I’d love to hear about some of these.

00;02;06;20 – 00;02;11;13
Anika
The more unique things that you have valued and how that came about.

00;02;12;26 – 00;02;43;06
Bharat Kanodia
A The process, frankly, is fairly straightforward. So irrespective of the asset dime that I’m appraising, could be a bridge or an airport or a company or a startup and the reason I have been successful at valuing all kinds of unique or interesting or mainstream things is because I never take my eyes off the ball. I always follow the fundamentals.

00;02;43;21 – 00;03;07;17
Bharat Kanodia
And if you follow the fundamentals, you can’t go wrong. The problem is now with social media and internet and clickbait ish title people lose sight of what’s important just because they want to have a click bearish title. I mean, you see it all the time, you know, Gary Vee and all these guys, he’s a clickbeat ish type of guys.

00;03;07;17 – 00;03;22;10
Bharat Kanodia
You know, they come up with things and one day saying, college is awesome, one is in, college is back, and it’s like, I guess I laugh at people who frankly follow Gary Vee. Go back to- your a bigger idiot to follow him. You’re not a Gary Vee fan are you?

00;03;22;23 – 00;03;23;15
Anika
I don’t follow him.

00;03;23;24 – 00;03;57;10
Bharat Kanodia
OK, we have to conclude this right now. So anyway, so the and the fundamentals are three. Anything is worth anything if it’s giving you cash flow over a period of time. Two years, five years, ten years, whatever cash flow it’s giving you and you take that cash flow and you present value it to today. And that’s one value. The second way to value anything is say, hey, my neighbor’s house was just sold for $100, so my house is worth $100.

00;03;57;15 – 00;04;24;09
Bharat Kanodia
Just home. It’s a comfortable house. And third way to value anything, Hey, what will it take for me to rebuild my house from the ground up today? $100, $70, $80. And that’s one value. So as long as I keep my focus on these three methods right through three methods, I’d sort of like the primary colors, right? All other methods, which there are, right?

00;04;24;10 – 00;04;50;16
Bharat Kanodia
Many other methods, but all other methods are a derivative of one of these methods or a combination of these three methods. And when people say No, no, there’s a 15th method, oh no, there’s a 31st method that I have come up with, they’ve just sort of, you know, come up with some kind of a combination of one of these three methods.

00;04;50;16 – 00;05;03;23
Bharat Kanodia
They haven’t invented anything so, you know, so focus on the primary colors and you will never go wrong. And that’s why I’ve been able to appraise all kinds of unique and weird shit yeah.

00;05;03;23 – 00;05;13;29
Anika
So when you’re doing this and you have these, so you come up with these numbers and they are probably not the same number all the time, or are they ever the same?

00;05;14;02 – 00;05;27;05
Bharat Kanodia
It’s never the same. OK, it is the same number. Something you ought to be questioning. Oh, no. What did I do wrong here? It’s never the same number and so, like, if somebody is too nice to you, you’re like, what’s wrong? What do you want?

00;05;27;09 – 00;05;47;18
Anika
Yeah, yeah. What’s ulterior motive behind it? So, OK, so you come up with this thing, numbers to benchmark and then what’s what happens next? And I’m a layperson when it comes to this. I haven’t ever been on this side of the equation. I think I told you, I’ve I’ve worked with start ups on helping them position themselves in the media.

00;05;47;21 – 00;05;51;21
Anika
Right. But when it comes to the work that you do, it’s completely foreign to me.

00;05;52;18 – 00;06;22;09
Bharat Kanodia
Well, it’s funny because because as a outsider, the question that you asked is really the million dollar question, and that is the Achilles heel of valuation then. OK, you use these three methods and you have three data points. How do you align these data points if they’re different or if they’re pretty close? And that is really, you know, you know, when they say valuation is the art and science.

00;06;22;23 – 00;06;46;18
Bharat Kanodia
So the science piece is coming up with those three data points. The art piece is trying to understand the relationships between these three data points and how they align with each other. And, you know, what’s the right answer when you take it out average? Let me just tell you that average is almost never the right answer. Hmm. OK, you never take an average, right?

00;06;46;18 – 00;07;15;20
Bharat Kanodia
People will say just take an average. I mean, OK, so one gives me value of a dollar. Another gives me a value of $1,000,000,000. Average what you know, let’s call it $500 million. Everybody go home now. Don’t work like that. Wow. So it always comes down to that. Hey, you know, while you’re working on these three methods, the exercise will help you understand the pros and cons of each method.

00;07;16;00 – 00;07;42;17
Bharat Kanodia
Mm hmm. Right. Pertaining to that particular asset. Right. And that’s the research that’s going to help you align the three values that, hey, should I be more skewed towards the income method or should I be more skewed towards the cost method? Because you’ve done your research when you’ve come up with those answers and you know what’s good, bad and ugly about each method, at least if you’ve done your job right, you would say so.

00;07;42;25 – 00;08;09;24
Anika
OK, so you figure out which way you kind of want to steer the ship towards which valuation is this is most of the work that you do when somebody is I mean, I guess you would work probably looking at the diverse things that you work on at all phases. So a company that’s really a beginning startup trying to figure out if they can even start going to series A or, you know, if they’re going to start down that road, somebody in the middle.

00;08;10;09 – 00;08;35;19
Anika
What are some of the things that you look for or the kind of companies that you that you usually work with? Is it in that wide range of, you know, very initial startup that has a good buzz and is promising and hopefully not the clickbait buzz, but just actually genuine product buzz to things that are, you know, a few years in the maturity and, you know, have a proven track record.

00;08;37;26 – 00;08;53;21
Bharat Kanodia
So there’s a saying, don’t judge a man by the answers, but by the questions he asks. Hmm. And as a outsider, you are asking pretty good questions.

00;08;53;22 – 00;08;54;13
Anika
Oh, thank.

00;08;54;13 – 00;08;54;19
Bharat Kanodia
You.

00;08;56;26 – 00;09;33;02
Bharat Kanodia
And as a PR person, that actually is a pretty good quality because most PR people are more into sales and people think sales is about talking and talking talking. It’s more about asking questions. So kudos to you for asking the right question. Oh, so when you were talking about startups, right? Startups valuations are most crucial for startups. And the reason for that is they almost never have a profit there’s no cash flow value.

00;09;33;08 – 00;09;53;09
Bharat Kanodia
Right. And they’re lucky if they have a product or revenue. Mm hmm. It might be two guys working out of a garage and hustling and saying, oh, we’re going to be, you know, $1,000,000,000 company tomorrow. But they got nothing today. Yeah. So what am I valuing a pie in the sky? Something they’re promising right?

00;09;55;23 – 00;10;20;19
Bharat Kanodia
I’m not saying that it’s not worth anything, but it is very difficult to opine on that pie in the sky. Hmm. So and yet, even though they don’t have any profit product or revenue startups of startup founders, they need to attract investors, customers, and employees. Yeah, and how would they do that when they don’t have any money? They don’t have any product, they don’t have any profit.

00;10;21;26 – 00;10;49;04
Bharat Kanodia
They do that by telling people this pie in the sky currency called valuations. Mm. OK. We have zero revenue. We have zero profit, but we’re worth hundred million dollars. Come work for us, OK? And people don’t know any better. People are stupid. People believe the headlines. People like you. Right? Right. I mean, that’s why you have a job, right?

00;10;49;04 – 00;11;10;15
Bharat Kanodia
Let’s face it. Look, you want to talk to me? Let’s be candid. You’re trying to, you know, insult anybody. I’m just saying that’s the way it is, right? And who’s coming up with those numbers? Schmucks like me, right? So you have these pie in the sky numbers that are printed in the media that everybody just eats up. And these numbers are made up by people like me.

00;11;10;15 – 00;11;49;01
Bharat Kanodia
So it’s like, wait a second. It’s like, you know, and some startups are better than others, right? But startups are kind of like churning butter, right? You got to churn it for a long time with a lot of patience and diligence. And that’s when you make butter. People who leave halfway their valuations don’t get anywhere. They’re never going to make cream so the importance of the story is don’t just believe the headlines that you might read in the newspaper because it’s let’s just say media is pay to play.

00;11;49;07 – 00;12;15;11
Bharat Kanodia
You know, yesterday I was talking to somebody and we were talking about doing something. And then later on this said to be an invoice. Oh, wait a second. I thought this was sort of earned media, like, no, no, no. With this paid media, I’m like, I’m sorry, honey. I don’t pay to play. Yeah. Content stands on itself, and I’m writing those stupid checks because I don’t have to.

00;12;15;26 – 00;12;16;24
Anika
Yeah, well, and that’s.

00;12;17;11 – 00;12;19;25
Bharat Kanodia
Yeah, why go to a prostitute when you can get it for free?

00;12;20;22 – 00;12;23;06
Anika
Oh, well, that’s quite the analogy.

00;12;23;18 – 00;12;27;07
Bharat Kanodia
But sorry. No, it’s an analogy.

00;12;27;15 – 00;12;47;19
Anika
And I will say that that’s something that really burns us as PR marketing professionals is these agencies that say, Oh, pay me X amount of money and we’ll get you in the media. Well, OK, you send out a press release. Yeah. You get some back links on, you know, certain pages of sites. It might be an NBC or an ABC affiliate in some small town.

00;12;47;28 – 00;13;01;24
Anika
And then you can say you were on NBC or ABC, but that’s not actually earned media. So we work really hard to make sure that we’re putting genuine stories out about products that actually have something. So, yeah, that’s that’s a big.

00;13;04;18 – 00;13;25;02
Bharat Kanodia
And forgive me, I wasn’t trying to talk your profession. I’m just saying that, you know, I and I have worked with a lot of people in PR and frankly, PR people are the nicest people. And I like to work with people when they’re actually genuine. And my process is very simple. I’m just myself and I approach them and I tell them, Hey, this is who I am, this is what I talk about.

00;13;25;19 – 00;13;35;19
Bharat Kanodia
And most of them love it. They’re like, Yeah, we would want you to we want we want to talk about you. You want to work with you. The ones who don’t. They don’t you know, it’s not everybody has to love everybody.

00;13;36;00 – 00;13;46;24
Anika
But to your point, a lot of people, companies, entrepreneurs fall prey to that. That paid media scenario because they don’t know the difference. And I’m.

00;13;46;27 – 00;13;49;15
Bharat Kanodia
Right. And people can tell when it’s pay to play, by the way.

00;13;49;24 – 00;14;11;14
Anika
Yes, people can tell 100% now. But I have had people who is talking to us potentially working together and they said, oh, well, I’m working with this other agency, and they got me in this and this and like that’s not a real publication because, you know, I was at the New York Daily or some some magazine that’s like I’m like, that’s not really a publication, like a real publication.

00;14;11;14 – 00;14;12;04
Bharat Kanodia
That’s yeah.

00;14;12;12 – 00;14;47;28
Anika
You know, you’re paying to have a sponsored post, basically. So it’s totally different. Now, that brings me to your question of in your business, what makes the difference between somebody who’s really good at their job and going to be straight shooters? Like I can tell you are with a company that they’re valuing and are there shysters who work in your industry who will go on to you’re not using those three basic the primary colors, as you mentioned, but are going to use maybe the 12, 13, 14, 15 formula to try to you know, twist or change the story.

00;14;49;08 – 00;15;20;05
Bharat Kanodia
No, no. If they’re using the 15 formula, I’m not saying they’re wrong. All I’m trying to say is the 15 formula is not a primary color, it’s a derivative of those three methods and it’s a derivative, it’s not the primary methods, it’s a derivative method. And most people, I think they try to do a good job, you know, for example I say said no to a client this morning, you know, it was a litigation client and they have a court date coming up which is two weeks out.

00;15;20;16 – 00;15;38;19
Bharat Kanodia
But we’ve been talking about doing their valuations for the last eight weeks and they finally turned around and they said, Oh yeah, OK, we need this valuation now. I’m like, No, honey, sorry, that doesn’t work like that. This was only two weeks ago, and that’s when I quoted you what I quoted you. You want going to do it now for saying, I can’t do it.

00;15;39;08 – 00;15;54;09
Bharat Kanodia
You want me to do it now? I’m going to have to charge you double. And they said, What? Wait, why would you have to charge your double because I have to be very careful. I have to put more people on the project so I don’t screw things up. And of course, they don’t get that. I’m like, I guess we’re not working together.

00;15;54;09 – 00;16;07;28
Bharat Kanodia
Yeah, I’m sorry I tried to help you, but, you know, when clients don’t pull the trigger and they know they’re under a deadline, especially a court date. Oh, sorry. That’s not on me. That’s on you. Yeah.

00;16;09;02 – 00;16;32;14
Anika
What is one of the most surprising? I don’t know if you can if you feel comfortable mentioning companies or clients or people are just generalizations, but what is one of the most surprising valuations that you did where you you maybe got in there and it was completely different than what it looked like when you first, you know, the private fascia like you got in there and you, you know, it was valued much.

00;16;32;14 – 00;16;38;16
Anika
You thought, oh, this is worth a lot more or a lot less or this shouldn’t even be going down this path.

00;16;40;19 – 00;16;43;25
Bharat Kanodia
You’ve seen that movie on We Work. What’s it called?

00;16;44;02 – 00;16;48;25
Anika
Oh, yes. I’ve been watching it recently. We crash.

00;16;48;25 – 00;16;49;11
Bharat Kanodia
That way.

00;16;49;22 – 00;16;50;27
Anika
Yeah. We crashed, I think.

00;16;51;07 – 00;17;14;20
Bharat Kanodia
Yeah, we crashed. I was in the room when that debacle happened. Oh, my gosh. And I went, oh, I can talk about it because it’s public knowledge, but I was there. Wow. When I told the investors when they wanted to the $47 million valuation and I had mentioned it to two of them that well, to my detriment, I said it may be me that isn’t we work just a fancy way of reading space.

00;17;15;14 – 00;17;39;04
Bharat Kanodia
Yes. Yes. And they didn’t want to hear it. They’re like, no, it’s a technology company. We’re Goldman, like Ford. I’m just a lowly valuation guy. What do you want three months later that $47 billion when we 1 billion I was in the room then I had to and I kept my mouth shut because it’s not my place to say it was my place to say three months ago yeah.

00;17;39;08 – 00;17;44;05
Bharat Kanodia
One day it’s happened. It’s happened. So yeah, shit like that happens all the time.

00;17;44;12 – 00;17;58;11
Anika
Wow. So you go through the whole process. You have a proven track record, you’re giving them your straight shooting and telling them, look, this is the real deal. But at that point, the investors can choose to listen or not listen. So then the onus is on them.

00;17;58;21 – 00;18;15;17
Bharat Kanodia
I’m working with the client right now. I mean, you know, fantastic entrepreneur. I mean, her company is doing extremely well and she thinks her company is worth ten to 20 billion, ten to 20 million and I’m coming up at two and a half million.

00;18;16;16 – 00;18;17;08
Anika
Big difference.

00;18;18;06 – 00;18;37;20
Bharat Kanodia
So I’m going to have to tell her I’m sorry, honey. It’s not ten, 20 million. I don’t know what to tell you and she’s not going to like the number. Yeah. Because in her mind it’s worth ten, 20 million and once somebody has made up their mind I’m not trying to change their mind. Right. I’m trained to do what I do.

00;18;37;20 – 00;18;44;17
Bharat Kanodia
So I’m just going to tell her that sorry it’s not ten, 20 million as to what actually like it or not, that’s what you paid me to do.

00;18;45;22 – 00;19;04;21
Anika
So this is really, I love hearing this side of things really, because I’ve worked with some startups that OK, they raise money, they’re going to launch immediately and then, oh, no, we’re going to delay the launch, then we’re going to delay it again. And then as you know, on my side of things, I’m preparing what’s the media plan?

00;19;04;21 – 00;19;27;01
Anika
When are we rolling out the PR strategy? When are we working on social media? When are we working on X, Y, Z? And all of it hinges on when they’re going to launch and then they delay it and then they delay it and then they delay it. I lose credibility. They lose credibility. You know, I had one who went through a name change after we’d already started seeing them in the press on really good outlets.

00;19;27;05 – 00;19;45;27
Anika
You know, they got they have some celebrity and people involved, so they’re able to pull some strings and get on, you know, today’s show or Good Morning America or a show like that and talk about and I’m like, OK, but then you’re going to change the name right after that interview. And then you’re going to launch and then, oh, now you’re launching, you know, a year later.

00;19;46;06 – 00;20;19;15
Anika
So and I think part of it is and I don’t know anything about the side of like the valuation and all of that or how much they’ve gotten in investment. But do you see that some like very often where once you get in there and talk through the numbers and they really see like how much work it’s going to take to launch their product or get the money, that’s really that appropriate number for their valuation and to launch properly that is I guess, is that a common scenario or is that just the people that I’m meeting or who are trying to start their businesses?

00;20;20;06 – 00;20;55;22
Bharat Kanodia
The problem is on the go, media has really skewed people’s expectations because 99% of the companies aren’t able to raise money or they don’t raise money at crazy valuations. But all you hear and see in the media is they raised 100 million at $1,000,000,000, you know, 200 million, a $50 billion or whatever crazy numbers. So most entrepreneurs in their mind they’re thinking that’s normal, right?

00;20;55;27 – 00;21;27;10
Bharat Kanodia
That’s, that’s the middle you know, that’s expected that’s average to it, not average. What you hear is the Brad Pitt’s of the world, the George Clooney’s of the world, right? The Meryl Streep. So not everybody is Meryl Streep. Right. So, you know, you there’s nothing wrong with being a nice theater actress or, you know, a nice actor on Broadway.

00;21;27;10 – 00;22;06;00
Bharat Kanodia
But, you know, Brad Pitt. Yeah. You know, yeah. So what that entrepreneur I’m telling you about, right, where she thinks there are companies worth ten, 20 million. Why does she think that? Because she’s read all these stupid headlines. She hasn’t done the real analysis that I’ve done. Yeah. So all in her mind, she is thinking that, hey, my neighbors, cousin’s wife, her company was sold for ten X, so my company is worth at least 15 x and that’s the calculation they’ve done in their mind, right?

00;22;06;26 – 00;22;31;19
Anika
Yeah. And on my side, I see that where if a client comes in, they immediately want to be in Forbes or Time magazine or Fortune or a big publication when like we haven’t, we’re just laying the groundwork first. We need to make sure, do you have, do you even have a bio? Do you have your key messaging? You know, do you know what your customer personas are when you’re reaching out to investors or the media or to potential consumers?

00;22;32;20 – 00;22;51;21
Anika
We need to start with the groundwork. So it sounds like it’s similar in a different way. You have to lay the groundwork. You can’t usually go from zero to 100. Sometimes it sometimes you can, but you can. Typically people have to you know, you have to do the work and the step up to get to the point where you even get those interviews.

00;22;52;12 – 00;23;16;12
Bharat Kanodia
I have a friend every time I meet him, he was like, You know, I have a client you know, he’s got $4 billion and he wants to invest somewhere. Do you have a company? He can invest money. And I say, No, oh, you know what? I have, you know, a client who wants to invest $100 million in real estate. Do you know anybody?

00;23;16;12 – 00;23;45;01
Bharat Kanodia
And I’m like, No. And I say, no, because he wants to go from floor zero to floor 100 within 40 seconds, OK? And you want to be careful of people like that. And by the way, I always pick up his tab whenever we go for dinner or drinks. So you got clients that you know are worth $4 billion and they want to invest with you.

00;23;45;01 – 00;24;03;01
Bharat Kanodia
I wouldn’t be picking up your tab every time. Yeah. So that’s why I just keep saying no. So yeah, be wary of people who do that, especially who want to come one time. Magazine and all that, right? Because yeah, of course they hired on and go I got can get us from Time magazine. Well, Arnica is no good, dude.

00;24;03;01 – 00;24;26;08
Bharat Kanodia
It don’t work like that. You don’t plan to see it and expect it to bear fruit the next day. It takes time. I mean, Time magazine isn’t going to hear you until you’re in another publication that’s maybe below target. Maybe then somebody you know, so you got to work up to it. But people, all they see is you know, Elizabeth Holmes.

00;24;26;08 – 00;24;35;14
Bharat Kanodia
Hey, she was on Fortune and Time magazine. Why can’t I get on Time magazine? Because I’m legit, dude. It took her ten years to get there. You know?

00;24;35;18 – 00;25;07;25
Anika
Yeah. Well, and speaking of that story, that’s I have had clients, I have one client specifically who’s actually in the Bay Area and she has been really trying to fundraise. She is a black queer woman founder, the only person in hyperbaric oxygen therapy space has great case studies, numbers for her brick and mortar. But when she is trying to go out and get investment, she’s you know, I think she has the barriers of black queer woman.

00;25;07;25 – 00;25;32;06
Anika
But then also people all look at her and say, well, Elizabeth Holmes, Elizabeth Holmes. So I know. And on one hand, people think that they’re worth a lot more until they get the actual numbers because they see companies like that. But on the other hand, things like that when it finally crashes are making it harder sometimes for people to maybe reach the right investor.

00;25;32;07 – 00;25;36;16
Anika
Maybe they need to, you know, look for different types of investors. I don’t know.

00;25;36;23 – 00;25;38;10
Bharat Kanodia
But this one was a scapegoat.

00;25;40;22 – 00;26;08;03
Bharat Kanodia
Yeah. I mean, she’s no saint. Let me say that, too, right? Yet she did a lot of things that were unethical. She shouldn’t have done that. But that was every entrepreneur, male, female. Let’s forget about the sex at this point. Yeah. They their job is to dream. Yeah. If they don’t, they shouldn’t be doing that job.

00;26;10;09 – 00;26;45;14
Bharat Kanodia
Well, the problem occurs when it stops being a dream to a hallucination. But I got to keep saying this lie because I have been saying this lie the problem is the investors, the people who invested in Elizabeth Holmes, they wanted to believe in the hallucination because it was to their benefit they just made her a scapegoat. They all were happy writing checks until she was making money.

00;26;45;14 – 00;27;06;03
Bharat Kanodia
It was almost like a Ponzi scheme. Wow. Oh, yeah. You’re making money or I’ll give you more money. Or you raise more money. I’m going to give you more money. Wait a second. You stop raising money. You are a thief. Wow. So she is no saint, but she was a scapegoat because these guys aren’t going to admit that.

00;27;06;11 – 00;27;28;20
Bharat Kanodia
Yeah, we were greedy and stupid to give her money. We didn’t really do what and we just got impressed with her, you know, because she was Steve Jobs, and she was playing in it, too. I mean, you know, she was not doing anything different than Steve Jobs except, you know, the music stopped, that’s all. You know, this just made her into a scapegoat, that’s all.

00;27;29;20 – 00;27;42;11
Anika
OK, now I feel like we’re really getting into the good stuff. I’m like, can I have you on to talk about all the different companies and, like, really pull back the curtain, peel the onion, it’s really fascinating. Yeah.

00;27;42;11 – 00;27;55;21
Bharat Kanodia
What do you think? It would have made a movie on her? The people who probably, you know, funded that movie are the people who funded her because they wanted to say, hey, I had nothing to do with this. It was very interesting yeah.

00;27;55;21 – 00;28;01;17
Anika
People don’t really think about it from that angle. That’s not what, again, the media portrays.

00;28;02;11 – 00;28;21;19
Bharat Kanodia
Hey, the media is a media is like salt in the right amount. It can really make a dish blossom in the wrong amount and really fuck things up. Yeah.

00;28;23;19 – 00;28;35;09
Anika
Well, so what are things that continue to inspire and motivate you in this work? I mean, I know you said, OK, I was good at this. This is my job right out of college. And you you kept on this path.

00;28;35;24 – 00;29;00;10
Bharat Kanodia
You know, now I’m at a point I don’t have to hide behind anything. I just say it like it is and I enjoy it. Yeah. Oh, and you know, when I don’t know something, I’m also at a point where I say, Hey, I don’t know, I shouldn’t be talking about it for the last few years, I’ve been creating a YouTube channel where I’m educating people on valuations and it’s gotten bigger traction.

00;29;00;29 – 00;29;42;02
Bharat Kanodia
And my next thing is I want to have an unscripted show on National Geographic around valuations. So and I share that with you because anybody listening to this would listen to me asking for this. Yeah. So I’m looking for a production company where I can add value. So I want to have a show, unscripted show, where I am valuing things like the Panama Canal, the Eiffel Tower, the Great Wall of China, because people want to know what these assets are worth and I am one valuation person, frankly, in the world who has appraise unique or weird assets like this.

00;29;42;23 – 00;29;52;00
Bharat Kanodia
So think of this show as modern morals, except it has the economic aspect to it, not just engineering.

00;29;52;09 – 00;30;04;13
Anika
So well, I hate to tell you this, but my partner is a documentary filmmaker and has some projects that are being created by this.

00;30;04;26 – 00;30;06;28
Bharat Kanodia
Because I like this is because.

00;30;06;28 – 00;30;14;26
Anika
It’s so funny when I do these interviews and I know this will be this will make it into the interview. I don’t I don’t like to do a lot of editing. I like people to really hear everything.

00;30;15;25 – 00;30;16;15
Bharat Kanodia
That’s why I said it.

00;30;16;22 – 00;30;40;21
Anika
Yeah. Well, and that’s why I’m saying this is that I feel like every time I do an interview with somebody for the podcast, that message is exactly what I need to hear or they need to hear at that exact moment in time. So you sharing this on the podcast? And I’m like, Oh, I actually know people I can put you in touch with to see, you know, to go through this idea because they have projects that are being looked at, at Netflix and at other places.

00;30;41;03 – 00;31;03;17
Bharat Kanodia
So show your partner my YouTube channel. I want to see if they like my work. And I think there is a way we can make that into a long form show and work with a production company and sell it to next year Discovery or History Channel or any, because I think there’s a market for those people. You know, you’ve we’ve all seen all kinds of shows around wonders of the world, right?

00;31;03;18 – 00;31;26;02
Bharat Kanodia
Machu Picchu, the Taj Mahal, how we’ve always made the story behind Taj Mahal, you know, the, you know, the ancient aliens and all that crap. Nobody has ever dissected those assets. From the economic perspective, what will it cost to build it today? Could you sell it? Could you buy it? How much money can you make off of it?

00;31;26;03 – 00;31;29;23
Bharat Kanodia
Nobody has done that. I am somebody who can do that. Wow.

00;31;30;04 – 00;31;43;13
Anika
That’s very that’s a very unique perspective and value add. 100%. What is one of the most surprising experiences that you had in working with a company.

00;31;46;16 – 00;32;08;21
Bharat Kanodia
That surprised me and things seem kind of surprising nowadays, you know, it’s just that, you know, people just have fallacies of grandeur, right? Like that lady I’m talking about, you know, her company is worth two and a half and like, you know, somebody would come to me and say, this was recent, this was funny to somebody to me recently.

00;32;09;02 – 00;32;30;16
Bharat Kanodia
And they said they want me to value their company. I said, Great, happy to do it. What’s the revenue? And that’s usually my, you know, few of the questions. What’s your revenue of $20,000? OK, all right. That’s all right. How much money have you raised? $200,000. OK, um, why do you need a valuation? We’re looking to raise more money.

00;32;30;22 – 00;33;03;16
Bharat Kanodia
OK, what do you think your company is worth about 3 million? Oh, wow. How did you get from 20,000 in revenue and 200,000 in capital raise to $3 million? Oh, we just spent like $150,000 on our branding in our website and our image and, you know, PR and you know, we’ve created a brand like you’ve created a brand and you’re selling your revenues $20,000.

00;33;04;04 – 00;33;20;11
Bharat Kanodia
You haven’t created a brand anything just because you spend $150,000 doesn’t mean you actually even are worth $150,000, doesn’t work like that. So yeah, I just chuckle when I get this. Yeah.

00;33;20;24 – 00;33;26;22
Anika
Well and that was actually my next question is what are some things that founders need to do to get ready for valuation.

00;33;36;26 – 00;34;02;29
Bharat Kanodia
I mean, just, you know, there’s no being ready for a valuation, right? I mean, I mean frankly, Onaga nobody wakes up one morning and says, I’m going to call my appraiser Barratt today. I mean you don’t go to a chiropractor because you feel like seeing him right you know, you go to chiropractic because you have a problem or you know you’re not feeling comfortable or there’s something that’s bothering you or there’s a need seem him with me.

00;34;02;29 – 00;34;28;15
Bharat Kanodia
You don’t go do that because I want to take Tommy to the vet today. You know, Tommi probably needs his shot or her shot or there’s a problem or he needs a bath or something. Same thing with me. I get those phone calls because there is a need. They’re looking to raise capital or they need to file taxes or they need to put money down on their books or, you know, they’re doing a transaction or something.

00;34;28;23 – 00;34;36;20
Bharat Kanodia
That’s when I get those phone calls. So whenever you know, somebody needs a valuation, they need to have it very clear in the head why they need a valuation.

00;34;39;13 – 00;34;52;14
Anika
Is there any other advice that you’d like to leave with people who are listening that you know or are thinking about starting something, or are they their mid, you know, mid flow there?

00;34;52;15 – 00;34;55;13
Bharat Kanodia
Really, I think your audience have been tired with me by now.

00;34;55;24 – 00;35;01;11
Anika
I know you had some great stories and really solid advice to share on.

00;35;01;11 – 00;35;01;24
Bharat Kanodia
Thank you.

00;35;02;00 – 00;35;06;18
Anika
Absolutely. And what’s the easiest way for people to find you.

00;35;08;09 – 00;35;15;25
Bharat Kanodia
Go to our website. There’s a Contact US button and send us an email and if you have any questions, so happy to answer them.

00;35;16;09 – 00;35;36;28
Anika
Right in the show. Notes, I’ll include some links to your YouTube and some of the other links that you’ve shared with me so that people can really dig in more and get some really good lessons from you and what you’re looking for. So I really appreciate your time today. I know it’s funny because you never know exactly where we’re going to go when I do this because I want to dig into it.

00;35;36;28 – 00;35;42;25
Anika
So I loved hearing your stories, and I know I’m sure you have a lot more to share. You should maybe write a book too.

00;35;43;18 – 00;36;03;03
Bharat Kanodia
I have been offered to write a book by Wiley. Yeah, yeah. Her book is boring. Who reads anymore? I read, but, you know, yeah, people like to watch things people don’t like to do too much effort. People like instant gratification. So I would rather do the unscripted show and not go.

00;36;04;07 – 00;36;15;19
Anika
Yes, I see that loud and clear. I also think this would be a good book that I would listen to an audible, for instance, when I’m driving to and from the office. So just keep that in your mind, too. Yeah.

00;36;15;25 – 00;36;18;14
Bharat Kanodia
Actually, I have a book title in mind and I have a few chapters.

00;36;18;14 – 00;36;19;28
Anika
Ready, but see, there you go.

00;36;21;16 – 00;36;22;24
Bharat Kanodia
I want to do more work on it.

00;36;23;27 – 00;36;28;23
Anika
Yeah, maybe. Maybe down the road after your successful unscripted show launch.

00;36;29;02 – 00;36;30;03
Bharat Kanodia
Yes, maybe. Yes.

00;36;30;03 – 00;36;39;18
Anika
Wonderful. Well, Bharat, thank you so much for your time today. This is a really wonderful way to start the morning for me. And I learned a lot, and I know our audience will, too.

00;36;40;20 – 00;36;42;26
Bharat Kanodia
Thanks for having me.

00;36;43;05 – 00;36;48;29
Anika
Want more? Check out AmplifywithAnika.com or follow me on socials @AmplifywithAnika.

00;00;01;05 – 00;00;31;23
Anika
Welcome to Your Brand Amplified the podcast where we interview marketers, publicists and brands to learn their stories, what makes them tick and tips and tricks that make a difference. Welcome back to another episode of Your Brand Amplified. I am your host, Anika Jackson, and I’m here with Brad Smith, founder and CEO of Stellar Insights and executive coach to CEOs Fortune 500 for many, many people and full disclosure, little old me as well.

00;00;32;02 – 00;00;48;09
Anika
I was really excited to have Brad come on and talk about his journey to becoming a coach and then also why it could be important for somebody to have a coach. I think a lot of people don’t understand the different coaches that are out there and what they can offer and all the value that you can get out of it.

00;00;48;09 – 00;00;54;07
Anika
And and I know that I’ve gotten a lot of value out of our relationship. So, Brad, thank you so much for joining me today.

00;00;55;04 – 00;00;57;06
Brad Smith
I’m delighted to be here. Thank you, Anika.

00;00;57;15 – 00;01;04;20
Anika
Absolutely. So you were not you didn’t set out to be a coach that wasn’t your life dream and what you were doing.

00;01;04;20 – 00;01;22;16
Brad Smith
Oh, my God. No, no, no. Somebody had told me, you know, 25 years ago. 30 years ago. Oh, yeah, this is going to be your ideal occupation. I would have I would look at them say it was just not even anywhere close to me. I had no idea.

00;01;23;10 – 00;01;33;10
Anika
So talk about your journey. You actually were in a completely different field and how did that happen and how did you discover the wonderful wide world of coaching?

00;01;34;14 – 00;02;09;22
Brad Smith
OK, so I was raised by a really brilliant man. He was- had a bachelor’s in chemical engineering and a Ph.D. in biochemistry. And he was a product inventor. But he was also a really gregarious and he raised me to be a chemical engineer; think like a chemical engineer. I can remember the process he took me through. So I wound up at college and had signed up for business as my major like the week before I went to college.

00;02;10;21 – 00;02;35;17
Brad Smith
And I said I, I don’t, I’m not really interested in, in business that is. What do you think about me going into chemical engineering? And he said, it’ll be a good background. It’ll never it’ll never fail you. And so I went into chemical engineering. I spent two years in chemical engineering because of other stories. And we’ll probably get to a one or two of ’em.

00;02;37;03 – 00;03;05;16
Brad Smith
I wound up wanting to go into pre-med, pre-med, finally realized that my degree, my grades were like horrid, not anywhere close to the 4.0GPA I needed, nowhere close. So I flipped over and went into biochemistry because what I wanted to study was neuro biochemistry disease cause. So, the brain and then how that affected how our bodies create diseases.

00;03;05;24 – 00;03;41;12
Brad Smith
So that was the background. All right. My marriage wasn’t working great. I went I stopped for 11 years. I did analytical chemistry and formulation chemistry. And that period of time went back, finished my bachelor’s in business management because I wanted to manage R&D teams, which I thought was that was an exciting idea to me. Then I finished my MBA because in marketing and finance, because I wanted to understand what it took to run a business.

00;03;41;21 – 00;03;58;02
Brad Smith
The reason for that is, again, my dad, when we moved to the city, Corvallis, Oregon, where earnings state is where I went to school for my bachelor’s, I watched him start 34 different companies.

00;04;00;05 – 00;04;00;29
Anika
34.

00;04;01;06 – 00;04;23;26
Brad Smith
34. And of those 34, 30 of them failed. And 50 years later, three of them are still running and thriving. You know, a couple got sold off, but it’s like. So that was my impulse. All 34 of those stories came through the house, and we knew all the reasons they went and didn’t go. And so I got to form ideas about it.

00;04;23;26 – 00;04;54;27
Brad Smith
I’m 30 ways plugged up in the back of my mind to kill companies right it ranges from not enough money to horrible people, you know, people decisions to partners to sometimes you have no business going into a market because there’s actually the business model won’t ever work. So I have all of those plugged into the back of my mind and massive, you know, red flags pop up when I’m talking to somebody and I’m going your business model won’t work or you are this or you’re that.

00;04;55;05 – 00;05;25;08
Brad Smith
I’ve got all these different ways that business can fail so the story for how I got into coaching, that’s a big background story. My second wife, April of 1996, brought me an article in The Oregonian that talked about Coach University and the quote is You need because I was doing formulation consulting at the time with my dad and brother’s company.

00;05;26;05 – 00;05;52;23
Brad Smith
Brad, you need to call these people. You’re already doing this. You might as well get paid for what you’re doing. So that’s the quote, right? Couple of months later I got involved in the program. It was like stepping into my favorite set of shoes. It fit perfectly. I automatically knew everything except maybe the sales closing part. That was a little tough, but I learned that.

00;05;53;08 – 00;06;00;04
Brad Smith
So that was the start of it. And that was 25 years ago. And it’s automatic.

00;06;00;16 – 00;06;23;19
Anika
Yeah. It sounds like your dad didn’t just teach you how to think like an engineer, a chemical engineer, but also by sharing and being transparent with what was going on in all of these companies that he was starting. And the whole process really trained your brain to think about all of those modalities and the way things can go, right, the way things can go wrong, what’s involved in each piece of that.

00;06;23;29 – 00;06;45;02
Anika
So that’s a, I think, a very unique perspective, at least from what I’ve seen in the world of coaches, you know, because I think many of us get approached all the time by people trying to sell us stuff, whether it’s on LinkedIn, email marketing, et cetera. But I don’t think I’ve ever spoken to somebody who has been able to see that kind of overview and complexity.

00;06;47;20 – 00;07;28;19
Brad Smith
I’m an automatic strategic thinker. I think at the 100,000 foot level, it’s compulsive, it’s automatic. Because I was trained as a chemist, I automatically also think at the tactical level, too. So I’m thinking big picture and tactical, you know, events and processes and people automatically. And if you don’t connect those two so that’s part of that combination of big picture, five foot level, hundred thousand foot, five foot level automatically that’s what I teach my clients so that they can be successful.

00;07;29;12 – 00;07;31;27
Brad Smith
And that’s part of the process. I get to do it’s fun.

00;07;32;03 – 00;07;52;10
Anika
Yeah, yeah. Well, it sounds like and this actually it’s perfectly to my next question, which is what continues to inspire and motivate you about this work. You’ve stuck with it, you have stayed in it and I’m sure you’ve worked with some clients for a very long time and continue working with them on different areas of their business or what they’re what next is.

00;07;53;15 – 00;08;00;18
Brad Smith
Oh, there’s, there’s two different answers to that question. The longest client I ever had was 13 years.

00;08;00;20 – 00;08;00;29
Anika
Oh my gosh.

00;08;00;29 – 00;08;34;19
Brad Smith
Right. And what when I live in it, I’m going to get emotional here. One of the things that lights me up is I know when I talked to someone about a month before they get to an epiphany that they’re going to get to the epiphany, and I lead them to the epiphany. The point of an epiphany is everything inside them winds up transformed and there’s energy in them they didn’t have before.

00;08;34;29 – 00;08;59;26
Brad Smith
I called it. I called you know, I said this for a long time. I live on epiphany juice because what happens is when someone lights up with an epiphany, they’re different permanently. It’s like it’s not if it’s there, they’re aligned. All their neurons in the brain have lined up, their emotions have lined up, and they see the world differently and they behave differently.

00;09;00;08 – 00;09;26;17
Brad Smith
And what I get to do, that’s why I named my company Stellar Insight, because I take them from insight to insight to insight. When I listen to them. I had a friend of mine early white, 40 years ago say to me, Brad, when you listen to me, you listen with your whole body. And what I do is I listen, not just with my ears.

00;09;27;26 – 00;09;38;26
Brad Smith
I saw this quote yesterday on the Internet. People have three years. They have the left ear, the right ear and the ear of their soul.

00;09;39;00 – 00;09;40;08
Anika
Oh, that’s good.

00;09;40;20 – 00;10;05;03
Brad Smith
And what I do is I listen to people. I listen to their hearts. I listen to their character. I listen to the words they say. I listen to their intent. And if their intent and their business model were the things that are doing are misaligned, I will feel the difference and then get them to get down into the articulation of what that difference is.

00;10;05;17 – 00;10;46;03
Brad Smith
So the gap between who you are, everybody has a gap I have this girl and I am not, and I’m here. My goal is over there. Sometimes there’s this big Grand Canyon between and sometimes it’s just a little step little step pieces are fun, but the big ones are huge. So what happens in that? And this is the other description of why I get lit up when I listen to someone and I take them through their epiphanies, I help them restructure who they are, I restructure, help them restructure who their business is, who their business is, not just what their business is, but who their business is.

00;10;46;11 – 00;11;11;18
Brad Smith
And then we get down into the what and what I do is I go to help them. And then we measure that by the amount of, you know, profit and over revenue, you know, for revenue. So if I can help them double the growth rate of their company, we will hit places where they’ve not just doubled their income on an annual basis.

00;11;11;29 – 00;11;40;22
Brad Smith
Sometimes I have these really crazy grants where we can double that on a monthly basis. A few of those monthly basis, right? Those are early, right? But later ones that are like, you know, ten, 20, hundred million dollars you add a zero to $100 million, you’ve accomplished something. OK, you add a zero to $1,000,000,000 company, you’ve done something significant.

00;11;41;09 – 00;11;51;25
Brad Smith
So those are- and that lights me up because not only is the business different and the person is different, everybody that that company touches is different.

00;11;54;08 – 00;11;56;04
Brad Smith
I love that transformation.

00;11;56;12 – 00;12;07;08
Anika
Yeah. Transformation and really heart centered work. You’re not just about the numbers. You’re about the entire holistic ROI.

00;12;07;16 – 00;12;07;25
Brad Smith
Yes.

00;12;08;13 – 00;12;12;03
Anika
So tell us about one of your biggest successes.

00;12;14;24 – 00;12;39;01
Brad Smith
I’ve a couple I had a client in Minnesota, and when he first came to me, it was a 12 year old company 12 year old company. There were three executives and he was the leader, president and CEO, I don’t remember. And we took them and they’d been in existence and had an average for the last ten years of two new clients a month.

00;12;39;01 – 00;13;01;10
Brad Smith
That was the average for the year, two clients a month when we finished and I took about three years, we rebuilt the executive team. We rebuilt literally every process in the company well, but at the end of that three year period, the last month I worked with them, they added 54 new clients a month, a month.

00;13;01;20 – 00;13;02;12
Anika
Oh my gosh.

00;13;02;16 – 00;13;23;19
Brad Smith
And they had been doing better, wasn’t a fluke and had been incrementally stepping up to that every month. So 54 new clients a month, the year, the month before, they’ve done 52. Right. And so we progressively added it wasn’t just the growth of the company, it was the growth rate of the company, but that was fun. And he was fun to work with.

00;13;23;19 – 00;13;42;20
Anika
Yeah, but it’s obvious that you have great joy in the work that you do and you really understand it. So when somebody is looking, I think this goes on both sides, right? As the person coaching and as somebody being mentored and coached, it has to be the right fit.

00;13;42;20 – 00;13;46;07
Anika
If there’s not rapport. It’ll never work.

00;13;47;03 – 00;14;11;10
Anika
Yeah. So how do you take that from initially? You know, somebody reaches out to you or you reach out to somebody or your assistant reaches out to somebody, you get on the call. How do you tell when there’s that connection or that you can really help somebody? Because I think this is important because, you know, as somebody if somebody is looking for a coach, they need to know that it’s important for it to be a fit on both sides.

00;14;12;04 – 00;14;27;13
Anika
Because they might see somebody like you and say, Oh my gosh, I want to get to 54 new clients a month, but that might not be the right thing for them or for their business. And that they might not be the right person for you to work with. So how does somebody identify and how do you identify who you want to work with?

00;14;27;20 – 00;14;52;28
Brad Smith
Well, it’s different for how I identify and how the other person identifies. First, I require ambition, like, high levels of it. They have to have drive, they have to be ambitious and they have to be curious. If they’re not curious, coaching won’t work for them. They don’t take ideas in from outside. It won’t work for them. Every human being lives inside their own bubble.

00;14;53;03 – 00;15;28;13
Brad Smith
All of us, everyone. And the best you can do is run out to the edge of it and shove the edge of it out a little further every day. And if you’ve got somebody like that, but if you’re ambitious and you’re curious, you’re learning constantly. That’s what I require in a client now when I talk to someone or literally this is me, when I’m hearing their voice for the first time, I go through all the process they use for speaking and dissect their character just from their voice.

00;15;28;19 – 00;15;56;16
Brad Smith
And I will know from their voice whether they’re going to be a good client or not. Not everybody can do that. But for them to approach me do they like the sound of my voice? It does. It does it is it warm and inviting? And that’s how you build rapport. Listen, think about your very best friends. Your very best, best friends are people that you have rapport with.

00;15;56;26 – 00;16;19;21
Brad Smith
You wouldn’t have them as a good friend if you didn’t. Those are good friends, people that you trust with your life. But there’s a there’s a modulation in vocal tones process that makes the difference for those dear people who are out dating. Listen to the quality of the voice that you have and the quality of voice they have.

00;16;20;10 – 00;16;45;21
Brad Smith
If you think of each word as a block. Each word comes out as a block. Some people have rounded edges to their voices, to their words, and some people have really sharp edges and short gaps between them. So if there’s room for you to put a word in edgewise and there’s a reason why you have that right, there’s a reason why that’s their own right.

00;16;46;01 – 00;17;17;04
Brad Smith
If you if there’s a way to put words and start, you know, interact conversationally, then there’s a way for you to be friends. There’s a way for that interaction to work some people are so driven that they have no- and I apologize to the industry used car salesmen. If they’re really selling- push selling, they have no space between their words and their sharp edges to their words.

00;17;17;17 – 00;17;49;10
Brad Smith
So I listen to the quality of their vocal speaking, how they speak, and that’s important. And I know almost instantly within at least two or 3 minutes of talking to someone, well, I’m going to be a good fit. And then we have the adventure. So ambition, curiosity, and willing to take risks like be an adventure. Couple of my heroes from early in my life, like age nine or ten, I read Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer, and they were constantly going on adventure.

00;17;49;10 – 00;18;03;22
Brad Smith
You know, they’re my heroes. Yeah, I love heroes. So I love adventures. So if you’re willing to go on an adventure and make more money and have fun, OK? All right.

00;18;04;01 – 00;18;07;11
Anika
That sounds pretty good to me. Sign me up. Oh, I already did.

00;18;10;01 – 00;18;17;12
Anika
Well, what do you see as your next step? What’s the next thing that you want to do in your life and your business?

00;18;18;20 – 00;18;41;03
Brad Smith
Well, there’s only one, Brad. Yeah, I can teach. I can teach what I can do. I can teach other people how to be that way. I can clone myself for four business coaching. I know how to do that. But for me to have impact, my next goal is and I have three things I’m working on right now. First, I have to build credibility.

00;18;41;15 – 00;19;17;09
Brad Smith
Then I have to build reputation. Then I have to build reach those three things. Well, cheap branding and marketing kind of helps with that, right? But beyond that, I’m I’m starting a podcast of my own. I’m calling it the, the Visionary Leader’s Mind. The Visionary Leader’s Mind is that’s an outreach for something that I want to do behind that, which is I’ve been studying being a human being and how all the underlying causes- core belief?

00;19;17;14 – 00;19;49;00
Brad Smith
I believe in cause and effect. There’s an effect in the world. There’s a cause for visionary leaders. They dead flat have to have intuition and fairly high access to it. I know how to teach people how to deepen that. It takes about a minimum of two years. So it’s it’ll be a two year weekly program not cheap but I will transform the people in it, transform their character and deepen their ability to reach into intuition.

00;19;49;05 – 00;20;10;26
Brad Smith
We all have that ability, all of us. You’re a human being, and you have a brain, you have intuition available to you if you work at it. Now, I know the science behind it. So that’s one goal, right? Teach it is the second one. And then I want to coach governors. And then in order to do that, I’m writing a book, so I have a few things.

00;20;10;26 – 00;20;36;07
Anika
OK, yeah. Yeah. You have a lot of irons in the fire, but I think that’s so interesting because I think that’s something often that we don’t do. We all have. We all know what we should be doing, but then we kind of resist it because we want to stay where we’re comfortable or, you know, you get that feeling in your gut and but you’re like, no, that, that this is the right thing to do.

00;20;36;07 – 00;20;54;25
Anika
And then you go down a path and realize, oh, maybe that whether it’s in life or in business, oh, maybe I wasn’t supposed to date that person. I wasn’t supposed to hire that person. I wasn’t supposed to add this to my business at that time, or I was supposed to add this other thing that I was resisting because I, I didn’t trust myself enough.

00;20;55;05 – 00;21;08;09
Anika
So I think that’s so interesting. It’s something that you do in your regular coaching to an extent. So I’m really interested to see how this program even deepens that further. And I feel like this also all goes back to your interest in neuroscience.

00;21;08;18 – 00;21;10;23
Brad Smith
Yeah. And well.

00;21;10;23 – 00;21;12;07
Anika
Brain. Yeah.

00;21;13;11 – 00;21;36;11
Brad Smith
I’m, I’m mapping out who are the neuroscientists that I’m going to have. You can measure it physically, brain wave wise. I just haven’t got the equipment yet. So it’s not if every human being is this brilliant being, and I have deep insight into how we got to be who we are and where we could be let’s put it this way.

00;21;36;29 – 00;22;08;27
Brad Smith
If everyone on the face of the planet had self-worth, deep self-worth and deep self understanding, there would be no insecurities in the world. All of our negative, reactive emotions, including murder, were all of those stealing and whatever all comes from insecurities. That’s the foundation of it. If none of us had insecurities and we could all be authentic, with each other, wouldn’t this world be amazing?

00;22;09;09 – 00;22;11;18
Anika
Yeah. Yeah.

00;22;11;18 – 00;22;16;02
Brad Smith
I have. I have goals. I want us as a human race. To be better.

00;22;16;08 – 00;22;29;22
Anika
Yeah, yeah. I love that. I also picked up on I thought it was interesting that you’ve been doing this work for 20 years, yet you still want to increase your reputation. You know, you still want to.

00;22;30;01 – 00;22;31;06
Brad Smith
Well, I’ve been hiding out.

00;22;31;10 – 00;22;43;26
Anika
Yeah, OK, well, that, that I think those three components that you talked about are things that everybody always should strive for personally and professionally.

00;22;46;08 – 00;23;16;15
Brad Smith
Somebody said to me early in my coaching, training, it’s like when you hit a certain goal, what’s next? Mm hmm. And so I constantly have what’s next in my mind. I have goals that will reach through the end of my life, if you would. Through the end of my life for me and for other people, but specifically for me, if we get to the end of this, you know, this life and what I want is I want to grow me.

00;23;18;00 – 00;23;50;06
Brad Smith
I think of Earth as a power over dimensions. You want it certainly for but 12 I think I’ve read somewhere that some of the scientists think there’s like 12 dimensions involved. You’re amazing. If there’s 12 dimensions right this entire Earth experience is for learning. Think about the hardest things you’ve ever gone through. And when you restructured yourself afterwards, divorce, death, child loss, bankruptcy, getting fired-

00;23;50;12 – 00;24;10;12
Brad Smith
All of those really major things each one of those is designed to say those are a brick wall you didn’t learn before you hit the brick wall. So if you if you have to learn one brick wall at a time, then you’ll have to learn. Then that’s how it is. I don’t choose to learn one brick wall at a time.

00;24;10;25 – 00;24;30;03
Brad Smith
I choose to learn from the whispers. Oh, Brad, you need to do this. But that’s a lot of work and it’s a lot of time. And I don’t think about it really carefully, Brad. And then then test it. Go do that for a little while, see what happens, and go do that for a little while and see what happens.

00;24;30;13 – 00;25;06;09
Brad Smith
What are the results you create in yourself so that in learning you’ve become better and different. You know, a better husband, better wife, a better parent. Those are the key pieces. A better boss, a better employee, a better business owner, a better global leader. And yes, I want people to understand who they are right now, who their whole character is, just a set of very deeply set habits.

00;25;06;28 – 00;25;41;10
Brad Smith
Each one of them can be changed there’s parts of myself I don’t like. One of them was hiding out. And so it’s taken me a year and a half to two years of hard work to get myself to a place where I’m absolutely comfortable. On your show is one of them, comfortable with the idea of standing in front of a group of people I don’t have interaction with or writing a book and putting my ideas out and having them transform in a way I’m not personally engaged in.

00;25;41;21 – 00;25;58;17
Brad Smith
That scared me. And so in order to grow my self to that place, the moment it ran across my brain, I said no. And then it’s like, No, Brad, it’s time it’s time. That’s the next thing.

00;25;58;27 – 00;26;07;06
Anika
Fantastic. How do people find you and learn more about working with you? And what you’re teaching and what you’re doing next?

00;26;07;16 – 00;26;44;28
Brad Smith
Well, everybody that calls me up and wants to maybe work with me gets a free session. OK, that’s what we’ll call it. The interview process. You get to interview me, see if they like me enough, and there’s enough if we can do enough traction in an hour. So my website is Stellarinsightinc.com. It took me a while to get to, and all my contact information a way to schedule an appointment with me is on that website. OK, so we’re inside or I’m on LinkedIn, which is how you and I connected yeah.

00;26;45;14 – 00;26;56;23
Anika
And what is your what’s your favorite quote or one of your favorite quotes? Favorite mantra, something that you try to live by that helps shape who you are?

00;26;57;10 – 00;27;14;12
Brad Smith
Well, I have several. We’ll start with one. Socrates, here’s one from Socrates. He said Smart people learn from everything and everyone. Average people learn from their experiences. The stupid people already have all the answers.

00;27;16;03 – 00;27;16;15
Anika
Wow.

00;27;19;08 – 00;27;20;05
Anika
Yeah, that’s a good one.

00;27;20;14 – 00;27;32;26
Brad Smith
So if you’re willing to learn, it means you’re and not one brick wall at a time. It means you’re in the smart category that’s. That’s one of my favorite quotes. I like that a lot. Yeah.

00;27;33;07 – 00;27;50;25
Anika
I like that, too. I’m going to have to write that down in my notebook. And look at it a few times a day to remind myself where I am on my journey as well. But thank you so much for taking time with me today on our podcast. Is there anything else you’d like to leave with the audience?

00;27;52;07 – 00;28;26;28
Brad Smith
Yes, I want everyone to. One of my other statements is best, one of my personal goals. It’s a statement. It’s like it’s a question is excellence or a lifetime pursuit. And what comes out of that is if excellence is your lifetime pursuit, think of your best self, the very best person you are, and the very worst person you are, and take your best self and grow like mad, learn, learn, learn and make your very best self, your worst self.

00;28;27;26 – 00;28;28;12
Brad Smith
Wow.

00;28;30;13 – 00;29;04;12
Brad Smith
Do that. Everyone around you will be different. Yeah, you will be eventually some way or another, happy constantly. We live our lives from the insight from the outside in. That’s what we call success. And the true measure of an adult is living from the inside out. Define yourself, define your goals, define your impact, define your emotions and your attitude because emotions your mind, your inklings, your intuitions.

00;29;05;05 – 00;29;10;21
Brad Smith
There are only tools that you get to use for being better.

00;29;11;13 – 00;29;42;21
Anika
Awesome. You’ve dropped some big gems today. I thank you so much for your time and audience you can find Brad on Stellarinsightinc.com or LinkedIn, Brad Smith, Stellar Insight and I will be back again next week and next week’s episode. We’ll build on something that Brad talked about. It is why entrepreneurs should look at book writing as a way to get word out about who they are and what they’re doing and how they can have impact in the world.

00;29;43;07 – 00;29;55;28
Anika
And with that, we will leave you for another week. And thanks again for listening. See you next week. Check out AmplifywithAnika.com or follow me on socials @AmplifywithAnika.

00;00;01;05 – 00;00;19;29
Anika
Welcome to Your Brand Amplified the podcast where we interview marketers, publicists and brands to learn their stories, what makes them tick and tips and tricks that make a difference. Welcome to another week of Your Brand Amplified. I’m your host, Anika Jackson, and I am here with Dai Manuel, how are you today?

00;00;20;05 – 00;00;32;29
Dai Manuel
I am fantastic, Anika. It’s great to be here. I know we’ve had some back and forth, some reschedules, and I’m just like, I’m so excited. I’ve been really looking forward to meeting you and connecting with you and, you know, hey, you know, just having a good conversation.

00;00;33;06 – 00;00;33;22
Anika
Yeah.

00;00;33;26 – 00;00;40;05
Dai Manuel
The art of good conversation. It’s not as easy to find as I’d like to think it is.

00;00;40;11 – 00;00;50;23
Anika
Yeah. No, it’s really fun. That’s one of my favorite things about doing a podcast is I get to speak to really awesome people, hear their stories. You’re up in Canada. Yeah.

00;00;51;04 – 00;00;51;29
Dai Manuel
Yeah. The Great White North!

00;00;52;10 – 00;01;14;18
Anika
Yeah, yeah. Off the coast. Vancouver is beautiful. I’ve been there, have been through Whistler snowboarding and all that stuff. But yeah, I’d love for you to share a little bit of because you have so much energy and exuberance for life and your story so I’d love for you to share a little bit with our audience, who you are, how you got to be who you are today.

00;01;15;06 – 00;01;15;28
Dai Manuel
Oh, boy.

00;01;16;07 – 00;01;16;24
Anika
Now I know.

00;01;16;29 – 00;01;17;16
Dai Manuel
Now the pressure’s on!

00;01;17;18 – 00;01;18;10
Anika
Philosophical.

00;01;19;11 – 00;01;34;27
Dai Manuel
Right? Well, you know, we all have a story. We all have a sort of that origin story, like where do we come from and how do we get to where we are and I guess, you know, first and foremost, I’ve just completed 45 laps around the sun. And so for those that have to do the math on that.

00;01;34;27 – 00;01;48;17
Dai Manuel
Yeah, that’s right. I’m 45 and first and foremost, you know, I’m a proud father of two teenage girls there and I should, you know, I like to think of them as kids still, but they’re 19 at 17 now. So they’re like,

00;01;48;17 – 00;01;50;01
Anika
Mine just turned 14.

00;01;50;01 – 00;01;57;12
Dai Manuel
OK, so yeah. Yeah, not, not, I mean you know how it is, they hit 12 and they think they are, what, 32? like-

00;01;57;12 – 00;02;23;12
Dai Manuel
So you’ve already been dealing with it. So it’s, but it’s amazing and you know my wife and I, we’ve been dating each other for 22 years. Love that so that’s very intentional with the language and I’m sure we can unpack that later. But those are really the things that matter most. Yeah, but there’s been periods in my life where I haven’t honored that and as such, you know, it’s created opportunity for challenges to arise, especially internally.

00;02;24;26 – 00;02;49;15
Dai Manuel
Again, I’ll get to that in a second, but you know, I’m someone that came to business kind of by accident. Entrepreneurship, I think was always in me because I watched my parents growing up being entrepreneurs. My father had his own practice. My mom always had a side hustle, like always, you know, whether it was the Airbnb antique selling antique shop, you know, she always had a side business.

00;02;49;15 – 00;03;14;06
Dai Manuel
So grew up watching her, you know, with small business. And, you know, so there was always that attraction to it. And fitness, though, because most people that do know me or I, you know, we connect whether online or offline, they instinctively feel that I’m someone that’s into health and well-being because I am those values. But but to be fair, I didn’t come to it naturally.

00;03;14;14 – 00;03;28;21
Dai Manuel
Hmm. And this is my long habit way of saying, you know, as much as we like to tell our stories and there’s usually an A to a B and then maybe do a C, and then at then a D and we have these nice straight lines. But my line was was anything but straight to get to where I am now.

00;03;28;21 – 00;03;51;07
Dai Manuel
And, you know, when I go back to that sort of origin point of why I got into health and wellbeing and more so those became passions of mine. And very much values, if you will, was at age 15. I was at my largest, I was morbidly obese and a lot of people aren’t familiar with my background. They meet me and they say, Oh, you don’t understand what it’s like to be healthy.

00;03;51;07 – 00;04;12;11
Dai Manuel
You’ve probably never been unhealthy. And I’m like, Ha ha ha, By the way, I have. And you know, I went through and it took about almost two years of me going through some significant lifestyle changes and really doing a lot of things that were very different than what I was doing up to that point in my life and creating all this change for myself.

00;04;12;16 – 00;04;30;06
Dai Manuel
And in that process, I really went from being a victim of change to really becoming a champion of change to to the point where, you know, I remember one day my friend of my mom’s came to the house and we’re like knocking on the door with this old screen door on the back porch, my mom being the antique kind of lady.

00;04;31;01 – 00;04;46;08
Dai Manuel
She made sure that we always had these old homes right? This old rockety porch on the back, this old screen door, and people would come up through the back door and it would see into our kitchen. And they would my mom would often have conversations through the screen door, like, why didn’t you just come and sit down?

00;04;46;08 – 00;05;01;02
Dai Manuel
But now, you know, it’s just sort of that small town vibe. And I remember them coming over there. Like, it’s always been the I’m like, oh, yeah, she’s in the back do some gardening. You can go talk to her there. And, you know, meanwhile, they stood at the door. They just stayed there. And I’m like, OK, you know, she’s in the back.

00;05;02;00 – 00;05;20;17
Dai Manuel
You need I’m like a 17 year old kid. I’m trying to make some food for myself. I’m like, What are you waiting for? And, and they’re, they’re just looking at me. And they’re like, Well, actually, I. Can we ask you a couple questions? And I’m like, Oh, man, an adult. It wants to ask me questions. I’m in my brain.

00;05;20;17 – 00;05;40;25
Dai Manuel
I’m like, What did I do? You know? I’m thinking, What did I do? I’m in trouble. What happened on the weekend? And oddly enough, you know, they came in the house and they proceeded to just mention, you know, these last couple of years, we’ve seen you literally change. You know, you’ve become so much more healthier and you’re happier and you’re more energy.

00;05;40;25 – 00;06;01;03
Dai Manuel
And I’m really it’s been inspiring watching you do these changes. And I’m like, I mean, that night I was feeling really good. I was like, you know, what am I love languages is words right for me? So far. So I was feeling very full OK through this interaction. And and they said, you know, do you think you can help us?

00;06;01;09 – 00;06;01;28
Anika
Wow.

00;06;03;13 – 00;06;23;08
Dai Manuel
I’m 17 year old boy at this point, right? And I’m like, wait a minute, you’re talking to me? And I’m like, looking around the room because I’m the only one in the kitchen, right? And I’m like, are you sure and and so it was just wonderful. I was filled with this feeling of fulfillment which up to that 17 years of my life, I can’t recall ever feeling that way about anything.

00;06;23;25 – 00;06;46;03
Dai Manuel
We’re here, me helping these people get their health in order so they can start to live into the life that they identified. They want to be living, but they feel that their health is preventing them from achieving that. And I was able to play a small little part in helping them get on that road, on that path, and it was right then and there I was like, I’m going to be helping people in some sort of capacity for the rest of my life.

00;06;46;06 – 00;07;07;18
Dai Manuel
I know, I know. This is my path! This is the journey now where I go now. And and that sort of set in motion a bunch of stuff that sort of is opened up as a result of just being in the right place. And I think for the right time and for the right reason. And I’ve sort of just evolved into this space of supporting people with change, you know?

00;07;07;18 – 00;07;07;27
Dai Manuel
Yeah.

00;07;09;02 – 00;07;09;11
Anika
Yeah.

00;07;09;21 – 00;07;16;11
Dai Manuel
There’s lots of stuff in between, but I skipped over about 30 years, but I figured, hey, we gotta leave some more for the convo.

00;07;17;00 – 00;07;41;19
Anika
Yeah, well, there’s a couple of things that really stood out when I was reviewing all your information, looking at your profile, and we were talking about you coming on the podcast, and one is your energy. It’s really obvious, like even just reading stuff about you, how much energy you bring to anything that you do, that exuberance that you love life, you have this big like happiness bubble around you, right?

00;07;42;15 – 00;08;04;00
Anika
And so you can see that you really have you are a champion for change. You are a champion for others. And that like just looking at you, I’m like, yeah, you know, I buy into it completely because you’re being authentic. I mean, that’s who you are. But the fact that you’re able to take something that you were doing just for yourself and then other people recognized, Oh, I think that he can help me change, too.

00;08;04;05 – 00;08;38;18
Anika
And that kind of set you off on this journey in this path. And there are two things that I really want to touch on. One is the five Fs that you live your life by, because I think that’s really important. And then the whole life fitness manifesto and what that means because I think often entrepreneurs forget that we have to take care of ourselves spiritually, mentally, physically, you know, it’s really easy to like get stuck just in meetings all day working, trying to set up the next deal for your company to make sure you’re taking care of all of the different things that it needs.

00;08;38;18 – 00;08;51;01
Anika
But if you’re not nourishing yourself, none of that matters. And so we have to remember to schedule that time and take that time out. So I would love to get into your philosophy and how that’s become kind of a cornerstone of what you do.

00;08;52;06 – 00;09;07;15
Dai Manuel
Thank you. Well, to be honest, it again, as much as we can theorize and it makes sense to us a lot of these ideas, you know, it’s the constant application of the idea of the actual action part.

00;09;07;15 – 00;09;08;08
Dai Manuel
Mm hmm.

00;09;08;08 – 00;09;14;18
Dai Manuel
That’s where the challenges lie for a lot of us, because a lot of us can rationalize all day long, like I get what I’m supposed to be doing.

00;09;15;13 – 00;09;39;07
Dai Manuel
But it’s just the actual doing that seems to escape me. Right? And and listen, we’re all victims of that at some point in time, if not more, than we care to admit. And for myself, it very much a case in point. When I got into entrepreneur, you know, really developing my business is you know, I became a personal trainer late in my teens.

00;09;39;08 – 00;09;58;22
Dai Manuel
And and then as I was working as a trainer, I was getting really frustrated because I was young and just very naive and not very empathetic. Which is interesting if you think about where I came from. Right. And but I was start to coach people that were older than me saying that they want to achieve these changes.

00;09;58;22 – 00;10;12;29
Dai Manuel
And I’m like, well, you just got to do the work, you know, like, you just got to do the stuff. Like, if you do this stuff, you’re going to get results. And but but yet they just weren’t getting the results. And I was like, you know, rather than saying, what could I be doing differently? How can I maybe support them differently?

00;10;12;29 – 00;10;30;23
Dai Manuel
You know, I just presume that I just can’t get it. I’m going to fire them now. I don’t need this client, you know, like just really bad. And like, really, I when I think back, you know, I’m like, I’m such an idiot. You know, like, just because I just really didn’t understand and I didn’t know how to relate to other people.

00;10;30;29 – 00;10;51;20
Dai Manuel
Given different health challenges that they might be working through, because I just couldn’t empathize because I hadn’t had a lot of big health challenges other than, you know, my, my obesity. And that created some other challenges. But that was when I lost all that weight, and I started to work out and eat differently. Everything got better. So I was just presuming that, hey, that’s the solution for everybody.

00;10;51;20 – 00;11;14;20
Dai Manuel
Just work out and eat better. And of course, we all know there’s so many more elements to whole life fitness. And so I’m sort of just building from context here to understand where the idea came from. Because I think we all have certain values that we honor and that we try to prioritize. Or I go one step further and say, we want to make them a non-negotiable you know?

00;11;15;00 – 00;11;45;28
Dai Manuel
And in particular, what I mean by this is I hear a lot of people say that, you know, family is a core value, meaning that they prioritize things in life around family. And I agree. And I think that’s one of my pillars as well. So I respect that when people share that. And where I used to run into challenge was as I started to build my business, you know, got into retail, had an opportunity to be a co-founder of a company and, you know, over 17 years scaled up to about eight figures a year.

00;11;45;28 – 00;12;11;25
Dai Manuel
And it was great, was fun and really lots of learning. Lots of learning and during that process, though, as much as I was trying to honor some of these values, like family, like even my health, now here I am selling fitness equipment, accessories, apparel, really the possibility of changing one’s health and wellbeing. And yet I was to at times find it a struggle to maintain my own health.

00;12;12;03 – 00;12;24;17
Dai Manuel
Wow. My own health commitments. And so that’s what I mean. As entrepreneurs, I know what it’s like. We prioritize everything else inside of us. And then when eventually it comes time to turn the focus back on ourselves, we got nothing left.

00;12;24;23 – 00;12;25;02
Anika
Yeah.

00;12;25;24 – 00;12;47;12
Dai Manuel
I, we got to have a life. We gave it, gave it to everybody else. My business got some, my family got some, you know, like the dude across the street. Then you know, he got so ready, and it’s like, I got nothing left to give myself, you know, and and of course, we find ourselves tired, fatigued, unmotivated, to take the action to do the things that we know will make us feel better.

00;12;47;24 – 00;13;15;07
Dai Manuel
Think a little bit differently. Maybe show up a little bit more differently, and it’s this interesting catch 22. Right. And so the long and short of it, you know, after these 17 years, I was struggling with a lot of different things. And one of the things was alcohol because as much as I’d had these very depleted moments at the end of the day, and I hadn’t honored my own health, especially my mental health.

00;13;15;16 – 00;13;15;28
Anika
Yeah.

00;13;16;07 – 00;13;34;17
Dai Manuel
It was really easy to escape some of those little voices in my head that were very judgmental of me, very critical, you know, that imposter syndrome. Oh yeah. It’s alive and well, you know, and, but I learned early on in life that I could quiet some of those voices and at least create a little bit of a repose.

00;13;34;17 – 00;13;40;21
Dai Manuel
You know, I got a little bit of a, a temporary break from that. If I’d have a few drinks

00;13;40;21 – 00;13;41;26
Anika
mm hmm.

00;13;41;26 – 00;14;05;08
Dai Manuel
And of course, you know, you repeat that habit enough, and that becomes more of a ritual and not necessarily a positive one. And that’s sort of where my TEDx talk that came out last year sheds light on a single story that happened about 13 years ago when I made a decision similar to that at 15 years old, when I made a decision to get healthy, I made a decision to get healthy again.

00;14;05;29 – 00;14;39;03
Dai Manuel
But it involved me changing and challenging that habit around alcohol. And because it was affecting me professionally, but especially personally. The relationships are really challenged and so I made a big commitment, you know, and I can get into that if you want. But, you know, I want to honor the questions you said about the 5 F’s. And after I made these changes and removed alcohol from my life, I started to realize I had a lot of personal growth yet to do, and I didn’t have the tools or the resources nor the understanding of how to do that.

00;14;39;03 – 00;14;47;17
Dai Manuel
So I had to learn how to ask for help. And believe me, at 33 years of age and I was not skilled in asking for help.

00;14;48;10 – 00;15;23;09
Anika
People rarely are. I don’t I don’t think very many of us are very skilled at asking for help. And I think, you know, I’ve experienced the peripheral, I guess, side of alcoholism with family members and different people. And there are so many things that we can use whether it’s alcohol or something else, to mask how we’re feeling. And then it is really hard to when you take those things away, to have to look at yourself and figure out, oh, wow, what do I, you know, what do I need to work on?

00;15;23;09 – 00;15;27;13
Anika
And you really see it. And then you have to decide if you’re going to take action right?

00;15;27;23 – 00;15;28;02
Dai Manuel
Yeah.

00;15;28;06 – 00;15;48;22
Anika
Or if you’re going to go backwards and I think it’s funny because my the podcast for the previous week to your episode one of the things we talk about is moving from you have an idea, you know, you need to take action. How do you actually take that step and take action? And we didn’t even we didn’t quite get to that finish.

00;15;48;22 – 00;15;53;03
Anika
So this is I love how this works out that like, oh, we didn’t even know we were going to go there.

00;15;53;03 – 00;16;16;17
Dai Manuel
But and to be fair, I didn’t know I was going to go there either. But when I saw the five Fs, I realized that without understanding some of the context of what I worked through or what it was, you know, challenges I was presented with, it can seem like a very let’s just say a rose tinted, you know, lenses, you know, rather than maybe overly optimistic.

00;16;16;17 – 00;16;41;04
Dai Manuel
And I don’t believe it as such, but it is rather simplistic as far as a philosophy is concerned on how we can prioritize things in our own lives. And so I and I think, you know, to get to your point of the action; I had to go through a period of really self-discovery again. You know, I had to get clear on some basic questions like who am I?

00;16;41;20 – 00;16;41;29
Anika
Yeah.

00;16;43;29 – 00;17;09;02
Dai Manuel
What do I want? Why am I here? What is it I want to be doing? You know, who do I want to be associated with, whether the experiences I want in my life, what kind of dad do I want to be like you know, just clarity. Yeah. And actually create some space so I can not only ask the question and think about it, but actually respond to it, you know, and not just simply invent an answer, but rather truly discover it through that introspection and reflection.

00;17;10;02 – 00;17;26;14
Dai Manuel
A lot of us don’t take time for that, right? I mean, I’m guilty of it. Like, trust me, I never make time for that stuff. You know, even whenever I hire business coaches, we’re talking about vision and stuff and I mean, like, right now, you know what? I’m just going to go do this. There’s this and there’s going to create this result.

00;17;26;14 – 00;17;32;25
Dai Manuel
You know, I was just so scientific about it rather than leaning into more of the what if space yeah.

00;17;33;08 – 00;17;33;17
Anika
Yeah.

00;17;35;17 – 00;17;57;26
Dai Manuel
And that was all based on where I was and because I was very limited, you know, I was dealing with a lot of stuff, let’s just say. And but everybody was because I know this now because I had to learn how to ask for help. It’s just I asked for help. And as soon as I started to share what I was struggling with, it was the weirdest thing there was like other people saying, Oh, you know what?

00;17;58;14 – 00;18;18;17
Dai Manuel
I got that same problem. And I’m like, what you do? I’m like, for how long? What? Like, forever? And, like, what? You know, because I talked to a couple of guys, and it took me a bit to share with that because I’m, you know, gosh, I’m like looking at guys as competition, not as allies. Right? Like, often that’s how I would just think about it, even though we would say we’re friends, we’re friends.

00;18;18;17 – 00;18;37;27
Dai Manuel
But I never really, truly felt connected. I felt there was always this sort of surface connection. Right. And so it’s easy. You open up, you start to practice vulnerability. And I say practice like any skill, vulnerability, skill, too. I realized that, gosh, there’s so many of us, we’re way more alike than we are different.

00;18;37;29 – 00;18;38;11
Anika
Yeah.

00;18;38;15 – 00;18;56;29
Dai Manuel
We go about our lives thinking that no one gets me, no one understands it. No one’s going to understand this thing. I’m working through right now. But the crazy thing is this is you open up and people start putting their hands up like, oh, me too, me too, me. Like, you look at the MeToo movement. I mean, it’s a prime example of as soon as you start opening up, you start telling your story and as some people say, your truth, right?

00;18;56;29 – 00;19;03;06
Dai Manuel
Like other people are like, hello. Thank you. Me, too. Because it takes one person that’s got to go first.

00;19;03;11 – 00;19;30;12
Anika
Yeah. Well, and it’s as you said, it’s really hard to live in vulnerability. And it’s really hard, especially if you look like a highly successful person. People see your beautiful family a happy marriage, successful business, you know, all of the things, the outside stuff, they don’t think to look more inside and realize that you’re young, but you’re still a person and you still deal with different struggles every day like everybody else does.

00;19;30;28 – 00;19;45;09
Anika
And it’s you don’t need to be perfect. You just need to be authentic. And living in that authenticity and being vulnerable is what helps create change, long lasting change for yourself and for others. And eventually, hopefully, everybody, right?

00;19;45;09 – 00;19;46;06
Dai Manuel
That’s right.

00;19;46;06 – 00;19;51;22
Anika
And that’s how we get to where the good stuff like the OK, how do we help each other through this and how do we really connect.

00;19;54;00 – 00;20;14;15
Dai Manuel
And I love that you say it like that because it’s right to the point. And that is exactly what it is. And, you know, because in doing this, it’s also clarity right? Like we gain that clarity when you feel clear on direction, not saying you have to have the absolute goal of where you’re going, figure it out. Like that’s that may not be a realistic initially, especially when you’re just self-discovering again.

00;20;14;15 – 00;20;36;16
Dai Manuel
Right? Like just learning about what motivates you, what you want to do and start dreaming again. But clarity can give direction and so at least you start to feel confident that, hey, you know what? If I start taking these steps, you know, one after the other going this direction, it’s going to bring me closer to that area I want to get to, you know, again, we do not have pinpoint exactly where that is.

00;20;36;16 – 00;20;50;22
Dai Manuel
You know, like if you listen to smart girls, I know you got to be very specific, right? Like, fair and I get it. That’s appropriate, too. But when you’re just getting started, it’s really hard to sit down. And I’m going to write some smart goals right out of the gate. When you’re not really connected to yourself, what motivates you?

00;20;50;22 – 00;21;13;15
Dai Manuel
What you really want and especially when you can’t answer the question, Who am I, like, you know, handling these other questions? Maybe do this one first, you know, and because it’s that clarity that builds confidence. And when we feel confident, we take action and we procrastinate less. Right? Like if you think about when you progress to these often when we just don’t feel confident about what we should be doing.

00;21;13;21 – 00;21;14;01
Anika
Yeah.

00;21;14;22 – 00;21;34;06
Dai Manuel
You know, and so easiest way to kill procrastination is get confident and the only way you can build confidence is you have to get clear on what it is you need to do. You have to learn something might have to do something different, but either way, it’s going to involve a little bit of change but change, it’s it’s usually hard.

00;21;34;25 – 00;21;39;07
Dai Manuel
Hmm. Rarely easy, right? But it’s always worth it.

00;21;39;20 – 00;21;42;21
Anika
Yeah. It’s always a growth opportunity. Yeah.

00;21;43;03 – 00;21;43;15
Dai Manuel
Yes.

00;21;43;15 – 00;22;04;03
Anika
And even all those failures are those. I mean, they’re not even failures. The, you know, the issues, the things that you saw in yourself that were flaws or things that needed to be fixed or lessons. There are things that you needed to learn to be able to really enjoy and experience the next level of life. And family and be there for your family and, you know, more fully.

00;22;04;24 – 00;22;21;01
Anika
So and I think that is another thing. So it’s we have to take care of ourselves we have to understand and be in tune with what we need to feel healthy ourselves. And then when we’re looking at family, I think it is really easy to say, oh, you know what, I can’t spend time with you. I have to finish this proposal.

00;22;21;11 – 00;22;42;26
Anika
I have to, you know, get on this call at 8:00, whatever the case may be. But at the end of the day, it is those moments my daughter and I just took a road trip for spring break and her 14th birthday, and it was so fun. It was just the two of us on the road. We went, we stayed in like Ponderosa covered wagon places and went to went hiking and canyoneering.

00;22;42;26 – 00;22;56;17
Anika
And I will always remember that time with her and she will always remember that time with me. And nothing can take that experience away. Me being in the office for the week, you know, holds nothing to having that time with her.

00;22;57;11 – 00;23;28;01
Dai Manuel
It’s it doesn’t take much, you know, it’s really interesting. But these moments that we create and these memories that are attached to them, I they can happen in a simple, quick interaction, you know, like just bumping into somebody on the street and that person saying something kind you’re doing something contrary or vice versa, stupid sometimes. And that like that, that one little action can forever change that person’s perspective and their relationship with life.

00;23;28;05 – 00;23;49;04
Dai Manuel
Like it’s the smallest of acts that can often create the biggest ripples. And when you start to see this in action and you realize that we all are just pebbles ready to be thrown into that, you know, like that’s all it is. But, you know, why wait for someone to throw us? Let’s just jump in you know, let’s go make some ripples.

00;23;49;04 – 00;23;52;05
Dai Manuel
And and I think that’s the part we all want to get to.

00;23;52;13 – 00;23;52;22
Anika
Yeah.

00;23;53;05 – 00;24;17;13
Dai Manuel
We all want to get there. And what I try to tell people and this is, you know, long my way of finally getting to the five F’s is, I try I try to give people a framework, you know, and I’m a OK, so even though I’m in I went to school the university originally for the sciences and after the first year and failing calculus three times to the point of the Dean says, you know what we can’t take your money anymore.

00;24;17;20 – 00;24;26;18
Dai Manuel
Wow. You literally I got a dean’s letter like you can’t do this course again. And it was like one of the required courses for where I wanted to go- where I thought I wanted to go.

00;24;26;28 – 00;24;27;12
Anika
Yeah, right.

00;24;28;00 – 00;24;48;24
Dai Manuel
And I was like, well, you just made my decision easy. I’m moving into the arts. And so I got into English literature and creative writing but more important, my major was in philosophy. So just to give you some perspective, as much as I love life and fitness and all that stuff, my my passions lay in the arts, especially in the classics.

00;24;48;24 – 00;25;12;24
Dai Manuel
But where I’m going with this is I always appreciated good alliteration and metaphor and because it’s a great way to take complex concepts really simple, you know, relatable as well as accessible. And so when I think about my life because I needed to make it something simple. Simple to identify, but simple for me to remember and hold that place in my mind.

00;25;12;24 – 00;25;41;18
Dai Manuel
Because if you can maintain clarity of vision, it’s easy to maintain direction, you know, and that’s sometimes all we need. We just need to know I just got to keep inching forward in this direction. And I know good things are going to happen. And so I’m going to argue that no matter who you are, the foundation upon which anybody wants to build any type of lifestyle or life, it’s going to be a foundation of health.

00;25;43;03 – 00;25;50;00
Dai Manuel
All right. Now, people can argue me on this, but I’m like, OK, when you’re not healthy, how good is life? You know.

00;25;50;01 – 00;25;50;07
Anika
Like.

00;25;50;23 – 00;25;53;06
Dai Manuel
Really, it might be good, but is it great?

00;25;53;11 – 00;25;53;23
Anika
Right?

00;25;53;23 – 00;26;15;11
Dai Manuel
Are you limited? Is your quality of life limited now based on maybe vitality constraints? You’re not having the energy to do the things that you want to do. Like really look at how the health plays into all that. And so when you look at health, there’s different aspects, of course. But I like to think of this is the foundation upon which I’m going to build a home and that home is representative of my life.

00;26;15;28 – 00;26;35;22
Dai Manuel
There’s four walls, so I’m going to take us all back to kindergarten. And now we’re drawing the old stick for the house, right? So it’s really traditional here. So you got this square home, four walls, and you’ve got a roof, the walls all by a letter F you’ve got fitness, faith, family and finance. With an overarching roof of fun.

00;26;36;19 – 00;27;07;18
Dai Manuel
And so this whole metaphor, you know, on this foundation of house is this house that I represent. Those assets are really clearly, to me, values. I encourage other people. You don’t have to use alliteration. But yeah, clear. What is the home that represents your life? Those core values can represent the walls. I always invite people probably to have some sort of happiness or fun type of aspect as a roof, because if you’re not having fun with everything you’re doing, there’s room for oppor- or room or opportunity for improvement.

00;27;07;18 – 00;27;24;12
Dai Manuel
We’ll just put it that way. You can tweak things. You can change things if you’re not laughing and smiling at least once a day, there’s room for improvement. OK, that’s all I’m saying. And then you’ve got the four walls, right? What are those for? You don’t have to use what I’m using you know, when I say faith, it’s non-denominational.

00;27;24;12 – 00;27;48;03
Dai Manuel
I mean, my faith is that humanity’s resilient. We’re great as humans and we have so much potential. I mean, when we can do hard stuff and we can evolve and it’s really cool, right? And for me, faith is just knowing that the day that I leave this planet, well, wherever that is due next I can honestly look back and say, I left better than I got here, you know, living here today better than it was when I got here.

00;27;48;03 – 00;28;07;19
Dai Manuel
So those are all little aspects, but they feed into that health foundation. Right? And one of the best ways to improve on your health foundation is you got to focus on the mental health, the physical health, the emotional health, as well as the spiritual health. Yeah, and and of course, financial health. But that’s sort of a given. That’s why I give finances.

00;28;07;19 – 00;28;15;20
Dai Manuel
It’s a wall because we live in a global economy. And if those aren’t if finances aren’t in a good place, we know how negatively that affects everything else.

00;28;15;20 – 00;28;16;24
Anika
Yeah. Definitely.

00;28;17;03 – 00;28;25;16
Dai Manuel
So I do bring that into the conversation, but that’s that’s it. That’s the five F’s. So Anika, what are your F’s you had to give your house, what would yours look like?

00;28;25;28 – 00;28;48;09
Anika
Well, I love fun. I think it’s really important to be with people that you can laugh with every day and just be goofy and silly. And there was something that you said that just reminded me, like the simplicity of life right? Those little moments are what bring us, I think, the most joy. That’s so. Yeah. So I love that.

00;28;48;09 – 00;29;05;13
Anika
I love being with my family and just having that time to make dinner together or to watch something silly on TV to like dance around and be silly. And I think that those are the things that bring me the most joy at this point in my life. You know, I’ve I’ve lived in a this is another story for another day.

00;29;05;16 – 00;29;27;07
Anika
I mean, I’ve lived in a lot of different places and had a lot of different experiences. And some of them been fantastic. But I moved back to L.A. right before the pandemic, and I’m really glad that I was here for that time. And I’m glad that I’m still here. And I also, you know, made everybody kind to take a step back and regroup and reassess or many of us did.

00;29;27;08 – 00;29;58;15
Anika
Probably not as- not everybody, but many of us. And my life before was so much busier. And it was, you know, I have to be out and do this. I have to go network here. And I just have to do a little bit of that but not nearly to the extent that I had before. And so, you know, that’s what I see now is like how do I keep enjoying life, do the things that I want to do, put all the put the good I want to into the world, but not but also be able to enjoy that time with my daughter before she is off to college and away doing her thing.

00;29;58;19 – 00;30;21;05
Anika
You know, how do I enjoy my nine year old dogs who just live to be with us all the time? And, you know, and you have to just realize, like, health issues are going to be their health issues. But you have to, like, just enjoy what you have with the people and the things in your life. So that didn’t really answer, but I think they’re pretty similar to what you are now.

00;30;21;05 – 00;30;47;11
Anika
I want to take a little bit of a different tack because I think this is lays a really good foundation for people to think about. Like, what do you want to have in your life? Right. And how do you find that fulfillment and how do you make sure that you’re integrating all of those health aspects? I love that you’re not just talking about physical health, but all of the other areas of health that we need to focus on, too, that we sometimes forget and during this time, you’re also scaling.

00;30;47;12 – 00;31;05;02
Anika
You said, you know, a company to eight figures successfully. Like how how does that play into where you are today and how what kind of journey and what kind of lessons did you learn along the way that you would impart to people?

00;31;06;19 – 00;31;27;14
Dai Manuel
Great questions. Well, so my last business, yeah, we scaled up to eight figures a year, and that was with commercial and retail so B to B and B to C as well as e-comm. And so we were selling equipment all across Canada online. And then and then our brick and mortar, which is predominantly in western Canada, and that was over a period of 17 years.

00;31;27;14 – 00;31;50;19
Dai Manuel
And to be fair, you know, the only reason my skill ability was there was because we had a great team of people, you know, we had some amazing leaders. We attracted some incredible talent and the company expanded as a result, you know, like we needed to expand because we had these people that wanted to expand you know, which, which made the growth even more exciting for all of us because everybody wanted it.

00;31;50;19 – 00;32;17;10
Dai Manuel
And, but, you know, during that process I realized as well that my, my partner at the time, my first real business mentor and I’d go as far as to say a life mentor as well who was 20 years my senior and this is the CEO of the company and my partner and you know, I started working with him and he had another company previously and opportunity came for him to separate that arrangement with his former partners.

00;32;17;10 – 00;32;30;08
Dai Manuel
And he wanted to go off as an independent. And I was his best guy, you know, and he’s like, here’s the deal. We’re going to go out and do our own thing. You want, you in? You can be my partner and we’ll do this thing. And I’m like, All right. I mean, you know, I did because he’s my mentor.

00;32;30;18 – 00;32;50;01
Dai Manuel
It’s like a very influential person in my life. And the thing was, you know, this is in my early twenties and I got into this not even realizing that this would become such a big part of my life, you know, 17 years, right? Like a lot of us said, oh, you know, what an idea. And we think this is sort of what I think I want to be doing.

00;32;50;01 – 00;33;09;12
Dai Manuel
And then we get down the path and all of a sudden it’s like, be careful what you ask for because you just might get it. And and that was exactly it. So it was very quickly it became a very big pull on my life. Which took a lot of time. Like, a lot of my time. A lot of my energy.

00;33;09;17 – 00;33;30;23
Dai Manuel
And you feel that responsibility for the businesses that we start or were a part of, you know, and will often and especially for those that are entrepreneurs and running your own business or consultancy agency, whatever it may be, but, you know, you’re running your own thing. The buck stops with you. There’s that pressure that the company doesn’t perform.

00;33;30;23 – 00;33;55;06
Dai Manuel
Whose fault is that? It’s my fault. Right? And so that added pressure makes us want to do more. We feel this obligation that we have to do more. And we get to this place where we put on this nice shiny badge and it says, I’m so busy, you know, and it’s this nice little badge. And we show it off to everybody, people to, you know, running up to us on the street.

00;33;55;06 – 00;34;19;12
Dai Manuel
How are you doing? I’m so busy, you know, and and and we’re proud of that. And that, Anika, is the biggest realization I had from those 17 years is that I really got to a place where my ego drove my decisions. And it was often formed around me wanting people to see me as something other than who I actually thought I wanted to be.

00;34;19;13 – 00;34;39;15
Dai Manuel
Now, I know it sounds a little confusing, but let me put it this way. It was like, I just got so good at putting up this facade of trying to be the guy the dude, right? Like the man, you know, like this. It’s so interesting, but wanted to be perceived as this thing, you know? And that’s what I mean by, like, living in my ego, you know?

00;34;39;15 – 00;34;42;22
Dai Manuel
And this was also a great way for me to mask insecurities.

00;34;43;01 – 00;34;43;10
Anika
Mm hmm.

00;34;43;17 – 00;35;08;11
Dai Manuel
Yeah, I was pretend I’m just going to pretend I’m this, like, dude, you know, and and it was weird because it just I, you know, at the time, it limited my ability to have deeper connections with people. Because I wouldn’t open up and if I did open up, it was typically very inauthentic. All right. And so those are some of the things that I really took away from the experience.

00;35;08;25 – 00;35;24;19
Dai Manuel
And I got very mindful, too, that I didn’t want to do that anymore. I didn’t want to be that anymore, because that was also what sort of led to more drinking as well because it was more lack of fulfillment. It would be the perfect of this. You know, I was what used to fulfill me wasn’t fulfilling me anymore.

00;35;25;21 – 00;35;46;25
Dai Manuel
And you know, when you start waking up and you start resenting the business and you started from passion you know, that’s usually, you know, it’s time to have a change or you’re literally already burnt out at that point. It’s probably burn out more than anything. Where we’ve just we’ve given so much to the business. We have nothing left for ourselves.

00;35;47;29 – 00;36;06;07
Dai Manuel
And and I say this and in this game, people listen this and they may not like this, but it’s one of those things like we can theorize about it all day long. We can say, Oh, never happened to me, believe me. You know, just wake up one day and you’ll be there. You know, that’s that was what happened to me.

00;36;06;07 – 00;36;17;04
Dai Manuel
I’m like, no, because I’m a health guy, right? I’m like, I know I didn’t do this. I don’t set boundaries and I know what I should be doing, and I’ll just do everything you know? And, oh, gosh, I just, you know, you can’t do that. You can’t.

00;36;17;04 – 00;36;18;22
Anika
That’s a whole other podcast. Yeah.

00;36;20;09 – 00;36;39;01
Dai Manuel
So burnout, though, is very real. And when you get to that place, you start resenting your business. That’s when you really know it’s time to make some changes. Yeah. Like you just know like, it’s like you get to this place is like, I cannot take one more step in this direction because I really do recognize now it will kill me.

00;36;39;19 – 00;36;59;15
Dai Manuel
You know, and and life’s worth so much more to me than this. And I know it’s a really fearful place to get to because then we’re left thinking, gosh, now what am I going to do? You know, what can I do? And and sometimes getting to that place can actually be one of the best experiences that we ever endure, because it forces us to get clear again and ask some hard questions.

00;37;00;11 – 00;37;23;06
Dai Manuel
Yeah. And it’s not very comfortable work. I’ll be the first to say that, you know, being that I’ve been there a couple of times now, you know, like it’s not, but it’s worthwhile work. And once you get through it and you will, you will get through it, it’s amazing. All I can say is that it’s amazing. But, you know, when you’re in it, it ain’t that much fun.

00;37;23;15 – 00;37;36;17
Dai Manuel
OK, but but it’s OK. You’ll get through it. And as you get through it, you’ll look back you’ll be like, Oh, it’s not that bad. You know, it’s the funniest thing, you know what I mean? When you’re on the other side of it, it’s never as bad. And we look back on it as it was when we were in it.

00;37;36;27 – 00;37;48;25
Dai Manuel
Ever it was actually a turn. I don’t know what it is, but there’s a psychological term that refers to that, that that ability of our minds to just sort of lessen trauma after we’ve lived it. You know.

00;37;49;06 – 00;37;51;02
Anika
It’s why women continue to give birth.

00;37;51;13 – 00;37;56;21
Dai Manuel
That’s right. Yes, that’s true. That’s the perfect example. Yes. Yes.

00;37;57;00 – 00;38;06;08
Anika
Yeah. So after your company, what continues to inspire and motivate you? Oh, well, you know.

00;38;07;06 – 00;38;29;03
Dai Manuel
Well, so I left and I didn’t leave at an optimal time. And so it wasn’t like anything I could retire on, but I knew I didn’t want to do it anymore. Yeah. Also knew I was very employable. My wife’s very employable. So six years ago, you know, I had given roughly about 18, almost 20 months notice that I would be leaving the country.

00;38;29;09 – 00;38;49;19
Dai Manuel
It was plenty, like plenty like a very long runway because I wanted to do it well, but also 17 year history. I’m not. Yeah. Can’t just say, here’s the keys. I right. Yeah. Especially because I had shares, right? I’m like, I got to be fiduciary responsible. So I’m long and short. I, I quit right? And then I left a month after I left, my wife quit her career.

00;38;50;24 – 00;38;55;08
Dai Manuel
Two months after that, we pulled the kids out of school. Oh, wow. We gave away all our stuff.

00;38;56;03 – 00;38;56;23
Anika
Oh, my God.

00;38;56;29 – 00;39;19;11
Dai Manuel
Yeah, we packed up the SUV with suitcases and whatever we wanted to bring. Everything else got rid of, sublet our place, and we started traveling south with with no real destination in mind. But this is the interesting thing. During those two months, as I was, you know, I had written a book, and it was being published right at the same time that we were planning to go traveling as a family.

00;39;19;11 – 00;39;30;09
Dai Manuel
You know, we weren’t sure how long we’d go for. And to be honest, we didn’t have an endless supply of money. We had some savings, but not enough to to travel for the five years that it turned into.

00;39;30;16 – 00;39;32;13
Anika
Oh, my. God.

00;39;32;13 – 00;39;49;09
Dai Manuel
And yes. And two and a half of those years, we ended up living in Bali, Indonesia. And and then we came back right before the pandemic because we wanted to honor our kids. They had said they wanted to finish high school or so we came back to Vancouver City finish school here and, you know, and to my discontent.

00;39;49;09 – 00;40;19;24
Dai Manuel
But I would have stayed in Bali if I had in mind. But but regardless, I’m happy to be in Vancouver too. But that that sort of, you know, I had to get very creative and learn new skills so I could create new income to support our family, especially in that that path that we were on. And so it just I went to work and learning new things and learning some new business strategy is and really went into a different area entirely.

00;40;19;24 – 00;40;25;17
Dai Manuel
But it still involves helping people online. And I fortunately for us that it worked.

00;40;25;25 – 00;40;26;04
Anika
Yeah.

00;40;26;08 – 00;40;31;14
Dai Manuel
And we’ve been able to sustain what we did and started scaling again. So it’s yeah, it’s fun. It’s fun.

00;40;31;28 – 00;40;34;24
Anika
Fantastic. So what’s next.

00;40;36;26 – 00;40;59;08
Dai Manuel
Well, I just finished a beta round on a program I’ve been developing for the last couple of years based on my own mental health challenges I’ve lived through and working I continue to work through full disclosure. You know, I still deal with a bit of depression and share a bit of anxiety from time to time. And but I’ve learned to manage it and most of the symptoms don’t manifest, but sometimes they do, you know.

00;40;59;08 – 00;41;17;28
Dai Manuel
And so there are certain rituals and rituals that I maintain and honor, and it keeps me in a really good place where I feel like I continue to thrive thanks to that protocol. Super simple design. But when I started talking about it to people, they started saying Geez, this sounds like something I could do. And I’m like, maybe.

00;41;17;29 – 00;41;40;21
Dai Manuel
I mean, possibly you could try it. And the more people I was having these conversations with that I realized, OK, well, maybe, maybe there’s something to this, maybe I’ll try this with some people. And so I just finished up a beta group testing this Merge 60 program. The results were phenomenal, and that’s sort of the next phase. I think we’re going to really bring that out in a big way.

00;41;41;00 – 00;42;08;09
Dai Manuel
Wow. I’ll just say that I think there’ll be more on that soon as we lean into developing a full campaign and getting it out to the people so they can try it and that. But it’s a full lifestyle program, but it’s founded on mental health first. So, everything’s prioritized around mental health first. And if you get that in a great place, everything else, it actually does feel easy and I hate saying it but it sounds like I’m, I’m actually the fittest.

00;42;08;15 – 00;42;32;24
Dai Manuel
So last year, six months, last June, I said, you know, as I was approaching my 45th birthday, I was like, is it possible for me to celebrate my fourth or fifth birthday and end this year as the healthiest, fittest version I’ve ever been? That was a question that I posed myself. And I don’t know. I mean, there’s been certain goals I’ve wanted to achieve physically, you know, from a fitness standpoint and performance standpoint.

00;42;33;08 – 00;42;52;09
Dai Manuel
It’s like, well, could I do that? And so I just started to reverse engineer from there. And yeah, I did, and I’ve maintained it now for about a year with relative ease, and I’m like, there’s something to the protocols. Yeah, you know, and we can have a separate follow up conversation later, but I’m excited to share that and get more info.

00;42;52;09 – 00;42;58;11
Dai Manuel
And there’s lots of stuff on my website that talks about there’s lots of articles and free content; people go to town, enjoy.

00;42;58;26 – 00;43;00;29
Anika
It’s what is your website? Yeah.

00;43;01;12 – 00;43;15;26
Dai Manuel
Diamanuel.com, you just go to my name dot com and in about actually, probably about the time that you released this, the new website should be live, so a lot easier to navigate and lots of cool new features being added but the developers of it right now so awesome.

00;43;16;12 – 00;43;26;15
Anika
Yeah. So people can go there and get a little teaser of your new program, your book, watch your TEDTalk like just learn all about the world of Dai.

00;43;27;05 – 00;43;33;13
Dai Manuel
Oh, I like to think about it more as maybe I’ll just shift your perspectives on what the world of your life might look like.

00;43;33;14 – 00;43;33;27
Anika
Oh. Nice!

00;43;34;09 – 00;43;38;10
Dai Manuel
You know, that’s my invitation. Is this I’m just here to hold the door open.

00;43;38;19 – 00;43;38;29
Anika
Yeah.

00;43;39;14 – 00;43;59;20
Dai Manuel
And I invite people to take a walk through it all, take a look on the other side, see what you see and let me know what you think. What do you think? You know, and, and, and I love that opportunity, you know, and to be fair and because that’s what you’re doing with your podcast or you create this amazing platform for people to come and have authentic, transparent but connected conversations.

00;43;59;21 – 00;44;20;08
Dai Manuel
And you provide this place for us all to be just a fly on the wall and absorb, you know, and I just to say thank you, thank you for helping us that we need more of this more. And I just really appreciate you doing that because I know it takes a lot of energy, a lot of time, a lot of a lot of love to produce this kind of a platform.

00;44;20;08 – 00;44;21;27
Dai Manuel
And so I just wanted to commend you, and thank you for the opportunity.

00;44;22;12 – 00;44;44;25
Anika
Absolutely. As I was saying at the beginning, it just I love being able to meet people I would not have otherwise met from all over the world and have these really authentic, amazing conversations and get to the core of who people are and why we are right and why we’re here. Because I feel like we all do have a bigger purpose.

00;44;44;25 – 00;45;01;15
Anika
And so the more information we can share about our stories and our purpose, it will help people who are listening. And, you know, somebody might get something from you talking about entrepreneurship. Somebody else could get something from talking about health. You just never know what’s going to hit and what somebody needs to hear at that moment in time.

00;45;02;03 – 00;45;15;27
Anika
So now we could go off on my dad was a philosopher and was a teacher, so we could go off on a lot of tangents but we’ll close it out here. Is there any anything else you’d like to leave with our audience today?

00;45;16;10 – 00;45;36;05
Dai Manuel
You know, other than just keep smiling and just keep smiling? I know that life has a tendency to knock us down sometimes, and I’m not going to be so cliche to say just keep getting back up. But rather, you know, if you get into fitness burpees are perfect, like it is amazing you for a life, think about it.

00;45;36;09 – 00;45;46;29
Dai Manuel
It’s one movement from the ground up. And if you want to get knocked down, what better way to get off the floor? With a burpee. So if you’ve ever had it, how life is like a burpee now, you know.

00;45;47;13 – 00;45;47;25
Anika
Wow.

00;45;48;10 – 00;45;49;09
Dai Manuel
That’s what I’ll leave you with.

00;45;49;15 – 00;46;07;25
Anika
OK, life is like a burpee, I love it. Well, thank you so much Dai. I appreciate your time today and thank you to our audience for coming back for another episode of You Brand Amplified. And I’ll see you again next week. Want more? Check out AmplifywithAnnika.com or follow me on socials @AmplifywithAnnika.

00;00;01;05 – 00;00;32;12
Anika
Welcome to Your Brand Amplified the podcast where we interview marketers, publicists and brands to learn their stories, what makes them tick, and tips and tricks that make a difference. Welcome back to Your Brand Amplified. I’m very excited to be here with Daniel Alfon today. We have this has been a long time coming, I will say. We’ve been trying to coordinate because we are on other sides of the globe, but that’s one of the beauties of podcasting is you get to meet so many interesting people and hear their story.

00;00;32;13 – 00;00;34;17
Anika
So, Daniel, thank you so much for being here today.

00;00;35;04 – 00;00;39;24
Daniel Alfon
Well, thank you very much. And again, I’m very glad to be part of Your Brand Amplified.

00;00;40;06 – 00;01;06;24
Anika
Yay! So, we are going to talk today about LinkedIn Profiles for business success, which I think is a very- it’s a topic a lot of people haven’t really realized how important this really is. When I look at all of the different social media platforms today, for me, LinkedIn is far more important than the other ones out there, whether it’s that I’m working on a new business project or are looking for a job or whatever the case may be.

00;01;07;02 – 00;01;22;03
Anika
So I’d love for you before we get into the topic. So let the audience know a little bit more about you and your background and why you transitioned to making this really your area of excellence in business.

00;01;23;10 – 00;01;51;22
Daniel Alfon
With pleasure. It’s a great question. When I was I started with LinkedIn early in 2004 and I was looking for a playbook and I couldn’t find anything really, and I needed to create my own. I made a ton of mistakes and at one point I carried a quarter in a sales position and LinkedIn helped me cut my sales cycle significantly and that’s the moment I decided I needed to dive and see what’s under the hood.

00;01;52;06 – 00;01;58;20
Daniel Alfon
And I’m very happy, especially since you hit record. 100 people have drawn to LinkedIn each second to people sign up.

00;01;58;27 – 00;01;59;11
Anika
Wow.

00;01;59;24 – 00;02;00;13
Daniel Alfon
It’s grown.

00;02;01;27 – 00;02;10;06
Anika
Wonderful. So how did you take- so you were in sales before and you were seeing it as kind of a lead generation tool?

00;02;12;06 – 00;02;33;14
Daniel Alfon
Yeah, it has changed and it’s evolved. Let’s start from the beginning. Earlier this year, when they Googled their own name, when our prospects Googled our name, then our lengthy profiles will top the list for most people. Most entrepreneurs and most SMBs, even people who had, you know, TED Talks, a published authors, LinkedIn will still top the list.

00;02;34;05 – 00;02;50;13
Daniel Alfon
So the first takeaway is that as an entrepreneur and as a business owner, you need to manage this. You can’t just let it- and you can’t stick with the LinkedIn defaults. You have to be aware of the fact that anyone Google you land on that site and it’s yours, too- It’s yours to leverage.

00;02;52;05 – 00;03;02;21
Anika
Yeah. So it’s a very powerful marketing tool. We all have free access to it and don’t even realize what it can do for us or how it could hurt us.

00;03;03;24 – 00;03;13;19
Daniel Alfon
Absolutely. We need to be- we need to amplify our LinkedIn presence, needs to amplify our brand, Like needs to be aligned and-

00;03;13;19 – 00;03;14;12
Anika
I see what you did there.

00;03;17;07 – 00;03;28;21
Daniel Alfon
The truth is, the best policy, you know, is if your brand is misaligned with what people see about you, on your website or on LinkedIn, then we have a problem.

00;03;28;21 – 00;03;29;14
Anika
Mm hmm.

00;03;29;14 – 00;03;44;13
Daniel Alfon
And contrary to other people, to other issues, like a website and you know, SEO, search and optimization, LinkedIn is something you can fix and update now. And in 5 minutes time, the whole world will see what’s what decision you’ve made.

00;03;44;13 – 00;03;48;08
Daniel Alfon
So there is no excuse. It’s yours to own.

00;03;48;27 – 00;03;53;25
Anika
What are some of the most common mistakes that you see with people’s LinkedIn profiles?

00;03;54;27 – 00;04;32;23
Daniel Alfon
That could be a whole series. But very quickly, perhaps not realizing the way their own profile looks from the outside for their prospects. So maybe I could suggest a simple three question framework. Like, who’s our ideal prospect? So if we run a business or ideal prospect could be San Diego or writers or Los Angeles bloggers or anything that caters to up to our brands and the second question is what action would you like those people to perform?

00;04;32;23 – 00;04;37;12
Daniel Alfon
Any Q&A visit your own profile. Mm hmm. What would you like them to do?

00;04;39;14 – 00;04;47;03
Daniel Alfon
If if I’m interested in a PR plus company and I bump into your profile, I’ve never heard your name before. What actually would you like me to perform?

00;04;47;10 – 00;05;18;23
Anika
Yeah. Well, and that’s a good question. So I think I know if I’m looking at my own LinkedIn and the imbalance that I’m getting, I’m getting a lot of people who want to connect with me, who want to sell me services because they see my title, VP of Marketing. Right. But I’m on there- I don’t want to take 20 calls in one week with different lead generation companies to be quite blunt, or 20 calls for a company that’s going to show me how to use video the best for my clients because we have a lot of those resources internally already.

00;05;19;12 – 00;05;29;07
Anika
So how do I reach people who need the PR marketing SEO website services better with my profile?

00;05;30;10 – 00;06;09;07
Daniel Alfon
Excellent. So let’s say thi. Imagine the funnel, a usual traditional funnel and you translate it into LinkedIn. So the top of the funnel would be people finding you either through word of mouth or through search or from direct actions you performed on LinkedIn. Marketers often disregard the LinkedIn SEO aspect. So because you know so much about your specialty, the terms you’re likely to use are probably more niche terms and more professional terms than your clients.

00;06;09;23 – 00;06;30;03
Daniel Alfon
So what sort of I would ask what sort of if you could interview a prospect and ask them if you had to Google this, what terms would you use? And then you need to make sure that the key terms you’re hearing from your prospects are represented somewhere on your profile. And I’m sure a lot of them are.

00;06;30;22 – 00;06;57;10
Daniel Alfon
But if you aim for, say, 50 keywords, then most marketers will find ten, 20, 30. But there is always room to improve this and that will bring more people to the top of the funnel. And then when they visit your own profile, the visual element that they see is the banner. You mentioned the fact that it’s a free resource for us to use the banner you uploaded.

00;06;57;12 – 00;07;23;27
Daniel Alfon
You don’t need to pay anyone to do this. You just have to use your imagination and be creative about it. And you have a beautiful banner. It has the best. It has wide thinking, deep expertise. It’s very colorful. And by uploading a banner you encourage people to stay longer on your profile and try to dig deeper and understand what is it exactly that another Jackson does and what is could that be relevant for me?

00;07;26;03 – 00;07;55;08
Daniel Alfon
Second stage would be to look at the headline. The headline is the most important real estate we have on our profiles, and by default it would be just our title and our current position. Oh, that you have turned your year around and you improve it instead of just saying vehicle marketing best and elevate strategic communication professional focused on helping brands and co preneurs empower, celebrate and strategically amplify impact in the world.

00;07;56;18 – 00;08;15;14
Daniel Alfon
That’s more customer focused than VP marketing XYZ. We are not important, and our customers don’t care about us, right? They only care about the ways we could improve their businesses. Or their lives.

00;08;18;09 – 00;08;18;20
Anika
Mm hmm.

00;08;18;28 – 00;08;52;19
Anika
OK, so that’s a lot to think about. And then even thinking if my headline is my goal and something that that’s what I like to do but doesn’t speak enough to what my company does. You know, again, going back to what you said about using those keywords and then when you’re working with somebody is beyond going through their profile and helping them retool and recalibrate it, then you also work with them on what kind of posts and content they should be creating, sharing all of that.

00;08;53;16 – 00;09;23;28
Daniel Alfon
Absolutely. There is a fourth tier of strategy starting from your presence, your profile optimization and then your connection strategy, your content strategy. And lastly, the lead generation strategy. So that’s generally the best order because anything any actually perform on LinkedIn will show people your profile. So your profile had a better be optimized before you accept connections or before you send invitations or before you share anything.

00;09;24;26 – 00;09;38;27
Daniel Alfon
And I’m blessed with helping people that I could. Like you said, people who are working in all sorts of places that virtually we could connect and help them and see results.

00;09;38;27 – 00;10;09;17
Anika
Yeah. Wonderful. So I think a few important key takeaways. There are one used a real estate that LinkedIn gives you for free, so use that banner. I think even the image that you have, right, your headshot because I’ve, I’ve seen people I won’t name any names but who have pictures that I’m like, that is not LinkedIn appropriate. Maybe it’s a picture of them on the beach you know, in a swimsuit or something because they want to show the world that they’re-

00;10;09;25 – 00;10;33;13
Anika
They’re not working, looking for a corporate job. Maybe they’re doing some other business. But if I were looking at their profile and knew, OK, but this person now is in doing real estate development as their second career after retirement is that the- do I want to work with that person who has that picture or do you know? So I think it’s really important to think about how you’re showing up.

00;10;33;13 – 00;10;57;18
Anika
And this is something I know we caution younger generations when they are on any social media. How are you showing up on social media? LinkedIn is social media. So we need to remember that every facet of that is important. So the cover image, your photo and then what you said about don’t just let LinkedIn automatically put your latest job title, your school, whatever it is as your headline.

00;10;57;24 – 00;11;07;14
Anika
Make sure that you’re really tailoring it to the impact or what you can bring to the table for the brands that you’re looking to work with.

00;11;08;09 – 00;11;44;00
Daniel Alfon
That’s absolutely important. And LinkedIn is the probably the most traditional and business oriented platform there is. And if we need to think about the ways to amplify brands. So let’s ask three simple questions. What are you happy with posting that we’re using that photo and maybe the professional you looked at was really happy about that swimsuit one. But the second question should be, OK, is my network, when they see this, when they go and see what was he thinking what will they say?

00;11;44;00 – 00;12;14;16
Daniel Alfon
Yes, that’s the person I worked with. That’s really their style. And the third question is your ideal prospect when they see that, are they going to say, hey, this is not the kind of person I want to start exploring a business relationship with? And if any of those question, if your answer is no, then you need to change and be and be more conservative have been what you do on Twitter.

00;12;14;26 – 00;12;15;03
Daniel Alfon
Yeah.

00;12;16;25 – 00;12;36;27
Anika
Yeah. Taylor So Taylor, for different platforms, same thing we say. And when we’re doing overall social media strategy for a client, like everything, every platform is slightly nuanced, slightly different part of your audience you’re going to reach. And journalists, too. If somebody is looking and wants to get more exposure in the media, journalists are going to go to LinkedIn.

00;12;36;27 – 00;12;37;14
Anika
Certainly.

00;12;38;26 – 00;13;08;01
Daniel Alfon
Yeah, you’re right. I was listening to an episode you released with Lisa Stephenson. Stephenson. And you mentioned Herro and other tools that junior PR people could, could, could use to to gain more, more business or more leads and I remember you wanted when you were in high school, you wanted to become a writer.

00;13;08;01 – 00;13;08;09
Anika
Mm hmm.

00;13;09;03 – 00;13;18;14
Daniel Alfon
So are you using the LinkedIn platform to write articles that would be published on LinkedIn

00;13;18;14 – 00;13;49;28
Anika
Yeah. And I haven’t been. And it’s something that I wanted to do, but it’s all time, right? I think when you get to more senior leadership especially, you just don’t have as much time. If you’re working in the business and on the business and this and this and this and wearing many hats. So but I think that’s important and talking about how do you rather than just posting on your own LinkedIn page, how do you elevate what you write to be something that LinkedIn is sharing?

00;13;49;29 – 00;13;54;29
Anika
That LinkedIn is officially published by LinkedIn and what is, you know, what’s that difference?

00;13;55;29 – 00;14;24;26
Daniel Alfon
OK, so the first distinction Anika would make is between posts and what LinkedIn calls LinkedIn articles. LinkedIn articles are native, if you like, search in published an article there. And I would say that articles are best for Evergreen Educational content that is on brand and that would serve you in 2025. So it’s not urgent.

00;14;24;26 – 00;14;48;14
Daniel Alfon
It’s important you can take six months to week to think about the ways you’d like to, to have it and about the headline and the images and the, and the flow, whatever you’d like. And once you have it another additional benefit of sharing an article versus a post address people to your website or to some other external source is that LinkedIn doesn’t want people to go away from the platform.

00;14;49;26 – 00;15;11;23
Daniel Alfon
We mentioned you were you had two choices. One is to send them to AnikaPR.com to an article there and the second would be to send them to an article within the LinkedIn gated platform. So the algorithm is going to prefer the second option because they know that when they show it to more people, those people are not going to leave LinkedIn.

00;15;13;14 – 00;15;23;23
Daniel Alfon
So even one article could be a nice addition to a strategy and you can use it to show and strengthen your soft leadership.

00;15;24;17 – 00;15;50;25
Anika
Yeah, and that leadership is very important these days. It’s one of the biggest strategies we use for public relations. It’s, it’s not you know, it’s funny because I think the world of PR integrated marketing has shifted a lot. And so when people think traditional PR, they think, OK, you’re going to try to get me interviews. Maybe I’ll get a quote, an article maybe I’ll be the whole article will be about me, but about leadership.

00;15;51;02 – 00;16;18;11
Anika
Your point of view is published, you know, in somewhere else, like a LinkedIn or an Inc or Forbes or wherever it is. It adds so much more credibility these days. And it is a big tactic that we use. So I love that you’re giving this distinction between just making a post, doing an actual article on LinkedIn and you also said it’s important, not urgent.

00;16;18;11 – 00;16;42;21
Anika
And I think that’s an important distinction as well. When people are thinking about their overall content strategy, whether it’s on LinkedIn, or other platform, what is urgent versus important, what’s the best use case? And thank you also for sharing about the algorithm because I know I see a lot of things from people that I don’t know because somebody I know commented or because LinkedIn thinks that’s a topic that will be important to me.

00;16;43;09 – 00;17;00;04
Anika
And so in that case, right, it’s the algorithm saying, Oh, I think this, you’ll like this content, so let us share this with you. And so you can turn that around and think about what content you would want to share- publish on LinkedIn as native content. And then that pushes out to more people.

00;17;01;04 – 00;17;34;02
Daniel Alfon
Yes, you’re absolutely right. And educational content. If you go back to your ideal prospect and you ask yourself what questions are they struggling with and what would make them tick, perhaps producing content around that topic that is not salesy will make people discover your content and say they when they think about the way to grow their business, maybe the advanced PR strategies are not even in their awareness stage from their perspective.

00;17;34;02 – 00;18;00;19
Daniel Alfon
Maybe they think only about it. And so by showing them that there are pros and cons to paid ads and there is also another option, you can guide those who like that option to take one step with you from point A to point B, and at the very end you say there’s also point C I could teach you, OK, I could guide you and you start, but you lead by example.

00;18;00;19 – 00;18;09;28
Daniel Alfon
You know, you answer the questions and those are continue are could become long term relationship of yours and long term clients of yours.

00;18;10;28 – 00;18;25;28
Anika
So when you started making LinkedIn your job, for lack of a better term, right? Did you use all of these strategies to find your clients via LinkedIn?

00;18;26;23 – 00;18;27;16
Daniel Alfon
Hell no.

00;18;31;27 – 00;18;51;25
Daniel Alfon
Even today, most of my inbound inquiries are referrals, probably 90% and I found the referrals are the best clients that are, but I have. And in growing my business is not for me, it’s not necessarily earning more dollars. It’s deciding who I’d like to work with.

00;18;52;04 – 00;18;52;18
Anika
Nice.

00;18;52;22 – 00;19;17;00
Daniel Alfon
And I’m happy to work with people I enjoy working with. I enjoy having a conversation with and and referrals. You know, their shows tend to be less price sensitive. They come almost presold because someone who was worked with you has told them in they appreciate a person’s point of view and they tend to stay with you longer and eventually sending new referrals.

00;19;17;00 – 00;19;29;20
Daniel Alfon
Your wait. So referrals is a big marketing strategy for me. LinkedIn is just a tool. As much as I love the platform, referrals and relationship are more important than LinkedIn.

00;19;31;19 – 00;19;54;14
Anika
Yeah, I would agree with you there. I’ve had a lot of business through referrals, but then when I think depending on my business you’re in and then you get to a certain point you go, OK, but how do I expand beyond? And that’s where LinkedIn comes into play as an important strategy, as an important tool. So what is like a big one of the biggest aha moments that you had a client had working with you.

00;19;55;03 – 00;20;17;14
Daniel Alfon
There were many. Probably just one of the best kept secret in town is the way that the advanced search is run on LinkedIn. And in short, if you know who your ideal client is and if they are on LinkedIn, that then within minutes you can find them.

00;20;18;05 – 00;20;18;17
Anika
Wow.

00;20;19;01 – 00;20;42;00
Daniel Alfon
And then there’s a whole new game of whether you leverage if you have connect with people you know well, that means whenever you’re on a search and you share a mutual connection with that potential prospect, then Anika, you can actually leave link team and converse with that person and ask them whether they feel comfortable enough to make an introduction.

00;20;42;19 – 00;21;03;03
Daniel Alfon
And if they do, then you get your foot in the door thanks to their name. It’s not our name. It’s the person that makes the introduction. And when they make the introduction, we get at least the ability to teach or to use to serve other people thanks to that mutual connection. And you can also lead by content if you if you should produce-

00;21;03;03 – 00;21;27;13
Daniel Alfon
I don’t think our audience, your needs to produce content for LinkedIn. But what we could do is analyze the sort of content we have assessed, the content we have and make sure that the best content, the best educational content is well shared across the LinkedIn platform and that is much less time consuming than producing high quality content.

00;21;27;13 – 00;21;57;12
Daniel Alfon
But there on your website or on your social channels, you may have tons of pieces you can repurpose that are great. And maybe 10% of them were shared at one point only on LinkedIn. So take a look at the other 90% and decide that’s also something you can delegate. You would do it for you would once you teach someone and by the third time they would know exactly what to do because the content has already been approved and it’s, it’s a no brainer.

00;21;57;25 – 00;22;16;19
Anika
Yeah. Interesting. I like that. Gosh, what was the next thing I was going to ask you? Well, what continues to inspire and motivate you about doing this work and helping people, you know, really live who they are? And show up as who they really are and who they want to be on LinkedIn?

00;22;17;09 – 00;22;39;27
Daniel Alfon
Well, I think the one aha moment that I had was realizing that if you’re an introvert, there’s a way for you to be yourself on LinkedIn and you can grow your business and you don’t need to become someone else for the sake of the platform. And I’m using LinkedIn as an example, but it’s the right for any platform.

00;22;40;20 – 00;23;08;15
Daniel Alfon
There’s a way for you to be authentic and to gain business and to gain revenues and to gain new clients. And you don’t have to become someone else. And a lot of very talented people, very talented people think that they need to become someone else because what they see on LinkedIn is something else. And then a simple question would be to do what’s right and not what’s popular.

00;23;08;26 – 00;23;12;07
Anika
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good phrase.

00;23;14;10 – 00;23;16;07
Anika
So what what do you see? Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

00;23;16;28 – 00;23;17;09
Daniel Alfon
Thank you.

00;23;18;07 – 00;23;25;13
Anika
Yeah. Oh, what do you see as what’s next for LinkedIn and then for yourself as well?

00;23;26;10 – 00;24;05;11
Daniel Alfon
Well, for LinkedIn, whenever I run a workshop, I see the just an hour before the workshop. I need to make sure that everything works as LinkedIn has a nasty habit of discontinuing services just when I have some cleanup up some- So I can’t really say what LinkedIn will become. And I think that looking ahead I’m very happy I fired for the lack of a better firm term, our clients were the fit was not- was less than ideal.

00;24;06;07 – 00;24;32;00
Daniel Alfon
And that helped me. I probably left a lot of money on the table, but I slept better and it was more than compensated by people I enjoyed working with who either extended their relationship with me or sent other referrals so deciding who you’d like to become and who’d like to work with this is the way I’d like to continue looking ahead.

00;24;32;08 – 00;25;02;28
Anika
Yeah. Now, that’s very important. I think that’s add so much to the quality of our lives, right? When you can do work that you really enjoy and that you know you can make a difference for somebody, but you also want to enjoy the person you’re working with and that relationship and what their success and seeing them happy and joyful because of the success that they’re finding by working with you and how you’ve been able to help, you know, change their strategy or change their, you know, it’s like change-

00;25;02;28 – 00;25;27;00
Anika
Making these tweaks isn’t changing their mindset, but it is it ends up changing how they have their outlook, and that’s very useful. Yeah. Yeah. So I know when we work with a client, if we’re starting a social media strategy or a PR strategy, we often tell them in the first month maybe even six weeks, we have to do a lot of onboarding where we find our competitors.

00;25;27;08 – 00;25;47;29
Anika
We’re seeing what materials do they have, do we need any content created you know, do we have to revise their bios, get new headshots, whatever it might be? And so while we I think, you know, we all want to go go go well, especially here in the States, we want immediate results. Right. And people don’t realize that things take time.

00;25;48;07 – 00;26;05;13
Anika
So when somebody starts working with you, is that kind of that same process of like you have to really assess the landscape, do a really in-depth analysis of what who they’re currently showing up with and if it matches what their goals are like. As you mentioned in the first four questions that you ask.

00;26;07;08 – 00;26;44;15
Daniel Alfon
Truth to be told, it is challenging for not only the states. And one way we could probably start working with those people is speaking. And he’s doing something that they are obsessed about or that they really care about. But as soon as we deliver that small project, we make a pause and we show them that in order to move to the next stage, there’s something to be done and they need to appreciate what you’ve done before, that they’re open to listen to what is what you can show them.

00;26;45;05 – 00;27;13;00
Daniel Alfon
And then if they’re, if they are interested in taking their business to the next level, they would you have a buy in and they would commit the time. It’s often it’s, it’s a question of priorities, one that once you show them the advantage of what it is you suggested there, they become a lot more willing to listen to you and to implement your suggestions.

00;27;14;11 – 00;27;23;04
Anika
Nice. Well, what else would you like to share with our audience today about you about the process?

00;27;25;10 – 00;28;17;19
Daniel Alfon
I really enjoy working with different people and each entrepreneur in each SMB is unique, and I’m open to help or to guide or do all sorts of free materials on my website that are showing my perspectives on LinkedIn and marketing and networking. If I had a quick topic we mentioned but we haven’t really explored is networking and networking is probably the single most important element that we need to become better at as professionals, whether we are publicists or writers or professional athletes.

00;28;17;28 – 00;28;48;09
Daniel Alfon
It doesn’t matter. It’s what will help us pivot in 2027 and I have no idea what LinkedIn will becoming 2027 and maybe we’ll have a chat about some platform that is being learned in the San Francisco Bay right now. I don’t know. But if we manage to keep in touch with people we, we met without asking for their help all the time, then we’re able to reach out to them like an insurance policy issue.

00;28;48;10 – 00;28;53;04
Daniel Alfon
Like if you only remember people when you need them, then we have a problem.

00;28;54;12 – 00;28;58;16
Anika
So nurturing the relationships that you build is important.

00;28;59;06 – 00;29;21;20
Daniel Alfon
Yes, it’s a lot easier because it’s just like acquiring a new client will take a lot more effort than nurturing an existing client. Nurturing an existing relationship is a lot easier and a lot less time consuming than, you know, going cold on someone and persuading them that you’re the solution for problem they don’t even understand they have.

00;29;23;11 – 00;29;35;02
Anika
This is very true. The low hanging fruit, right? Yeah, I love that. Do you have a favorite quote or some words that you live by.

00;29;36;29 – 00;29;43;02
Daniel Alfon
A code when diplomacy is the art of letting someone else have it your way?

00;29;43;26 – 00;29;45;13
Anika
Oh, I like that.

00;29;46;15 – 00;29;55;19
Daniel Alfon
OK, attributed to Daniel Valley and Italian diplomats. And it’s founded on “Getting Past No” by William Ury.

00;29;56;04 – 00;30;08;29
Anika
I love that. I love that. I’m going to have to remember that. It’s another one, t’s another keeper. I have a collection of ones that people have told me that I’m going to need to write them all down and just put them up on my wall. Right.

00;30;10;23 – 00;30;17;19
Daniel Alfon
What quote would you like to share? What is the quote you live by or quote you like?

00;30;18;01 – 00;30;22;06
Anika
Oh, be kind whenever possible. It is always possible.

00;30;25;16 – 00;30;27;10
Daniel Alfon
It’s very powerful. Both house.

00;30;29;13 – 00;30;53;06
Anika
Yeah. I think we have to treat ourselves with kindness and we have to treat others with kindness. Right. And sometimes we don’t want to do either, but both are necessary and important, so. Well, Daniel, I know it’s late for you. I’m still getting my day started, but I really appreciate this time together, and I’m going to make sure people come to your website.

00;30;53;23 – 00;30;59;19
Anika
Danielalfon.com. Are there other social- are you the same on other social media platforms?

00;31;01;02 – 00;31;10;03
Daniel Alfon
Yes. So my website has links to the Amazon book and Twitter and my website is probably the place that is most up to date promise.

00;31;10;07 – 00;31;12;14
Anika
OK, well and give a quick little plug for your book.

00;31;13;22 – 00;31;39;10
Daniel Alfon
So the book the truth is when I wanted to buy a book and when I bought the book, I saw an ad saying, are you an author? Click here. And then I said, OK, so if that simple and if I put my mind to it in three weeks, I can, I can write a book wow. And lo and behold, two years later, I had what.

00;31;40;00 – 00;31;43;28
Anika
I was going to say. Well, three weeks. Oh, my gosh. You’re really. Yeah.

00;31;45;26 – 00;32;15;16
Daniel Alfon
I was over overconfident. The draft was there within three weeks, but the editing and everything else took a lot more time. And it was an interesting experience from my perspective, trying to have- to write it in a way that would be easy to read and easy to, to implement. And obviously things have changed since the book was published, but it was an experience I really enjoyed.

00;32;15;26 – 00;32;37;15
Anika
Yeah. Wonderful. Yeah, absolutely. I can’t wait to check it out myself. And again, thank you so much for being with us. You definitely gave some great tips that people can implement right now. I will also encourage everyone listening to go to Danielalfon.com. I will put that in the show notes so that you can get more tips and tricks for your LinkedIn strategy.

00;32;37;26 – 00;32;57;14
Anika
Might I add, these are also good tips and tricks to think about for your other social media strategies. As well. But I think LinkedIn is a wonderful place to start, especially with today’s job market and the confluence of so many different types of social media I feel like LinkedIn still cuts through the clutter and gets us to the people we want to meet.

00;32;57;27 – 00;33;17;04
Anika
So I was really excited to have this conversation and I will be back again next week with more tips and tricks on marketing and PR and other things that entrepreneurs and small businesses need to know. Thank you. Want more? Check out AmplifywithAnika.com or follow me on socials @AmplifywithAnika.

00;00;01;05 – 00;00;27;29
Anika
Welcome to Your Brand Amplified the podcast where we interview marketers, publicists and brands to learn their stories, what makes them tick, and tips and tricks that make a difference. Welcome back to your brand Amplified. We’re taking a little departure from our last few episodes, which really focused a lot on business consulting, quantum leaps, but it kind of also fits with that.

00;00;27;29 – 00;00;50;16
Anika
It’s a great end cap I think, to this series of podcasts. It’s so interesting how that happens because my guest today is Dave Combs. He is a prolific songwriter who has built a business with virtually no advertising and done so much to move people with his music and also has a bestselling book! Dave, welcome to the show.

00;00;51;02 – 00;00;57;11
Dave Combs
Thank you, Anika. It’s a pleasure to be here on this beautiful spring day in North Carolina. And I’m sure you’re in, what, California?

00;00;57;17 – 00;00;59;04
Anika
I’m in California, yes.

00;00;59;13 – 00;01;01;24
Dave Combs
Well, we’ve got we’ve got the whole country covered then.

00;01;01;24 – 00;01;21;19
Anika
Exactly we do. I was really excited to interview you. I poked around a lot at some of your stuff, and I really want to hear how you got your start because I know you didn’t- you were doing some other stuff before you got to music. I don’t want to give too much away because I want you to tell our audience.

00;01;22;27 – 00;01;36;04
Dave Combs
Well, I’m like a lot of I’ve listened to some of your other episodes and I could identify with a lot of them, especially those entrepreneurs who are I think one of the gentlemen. Harris, I believe, is his last name, called it a multi entrepreneur.

00;01;36;04 – 00;01;37;15
Anika
Yes.

00;01;37;15 – 00;01;44;01
Dave Combs
And it’s really that kind of described to me. I thought, well, he and I could probably just bounce off of each other all day long.

00;01;45;01 – 00;02;06;09
Dave Combs
But but, you know, I have all my life, I have had tons of interests. I just am an inquisitive kid. You know, I’m the kid that when he got a toy, when nobody was looking, I took it apart together just to see how it worked. Wow. So it’s one of those things. So I grew up in in East Tennessee, up in the mountains of East Tennessee.

00;02;06;20 – 00;02;32;01
Dave Combs
I guess you could call me a Tennessee hillbilly, but I grew up in a family. My mother and father were both musical. They both played the piano. My father played by ear my mother was a former schoolteacher, but my father and my mother grew up on farms. So, you know, a farmer, I guess, is the ultimate entrepreneur. I mean, you are you are in business for yourself.

00;02;32;10 – 00;02;55;01
Dave Combs
You’re at the mercy of the weather and everything else around. And it’s a tough job to make a living as a small farmer or maybe even as a large farmer. But they came from that. Those were their roots. And I think when you come from long lines of families of a different of a particular kind of occupation, whether it’s farmers or businesspeople, whatever it is, it’s kind of in your blood.

00;02;55;02 – 00;03;24;07
Dave Combs
You know, you kind of expect yourself to have those same kind of ideas of independence and making, not depending on anybody else necessarily for everything that you have, but doing things, you know, creating things. If you’re a out, you’re selling things to people or whatever it is you do as an entrepreneur. So I grew up around that, and I suppose that even when I was 12 years old in the sixth grade, I planted a half acre of potatoes.

00;03;24;10 – 00;03;24;29
Anika
Oh, my gosh.

00;03;25;17 – 00;03;45;10
Dave Combs
And babied those suckers all summer long and dug them up myself and sold them by the bushel to my elementary school. I fed all my fellow students at my elementary school potatoes that sold for $5 a book. I think it was $5 a bushel that I sold them for. Which to that that’s a great deal.

00;03;45;18 – 00;03;46;21
Anika
But yeah, but.

00;03;46;21 – 00;03;51;00
Dave Combs
Anyway, that was that was kind of the beginnings of an entrepreneurial attitude.

00;03;51;06 – 00;03;51;17
Anika
Yeah.

00;03;51;26 – 00;03;53;02
Dave Combs
And concept for me.

00;03;53;10 – 00;04;05;25
Anika
Well, I want to say, you know, I grew up I actually grew up in Kansas, and my stepdad grew up on a farm and told me a lot of stories about, you know, you have to get up and you have to those cows aren’t going to milk themselves in the morning.

00;04;06;20 – 00;04;08;05
Dave Combs
I’ve heard that before. Yes.

00;04;09;14 – 00;04;30;25
Anika
It doesn’t matter, you know, what the weather’s like you or what else you think you want to do. You have responsibilities. You have to like you said, that is true entrepreneurship. You have to get up. You have to take care of everything before you go on to school or whatever else you have going on. When you get back at the end of the day, if you’re a school kid, same thing it waits for you. It doesn’t stop.

00;04;31;11 – 00;05;01;26
Dave Combs
That’s right. It’s I think that’s really good ground thing or a great life and really a foundation for your character and who you are. And I have the highest respect for people who are farmers and entrepreneurs that do things on their own initiative. And but anyway, I did not I didn’t become a farmer or anything, but I did go on to college and I took math as my major physics as my minor.

00;05;01;26 – 00;05;22;27
Dave Combs
And I worked in the computer center all four years. So I’m a very technical oriented person. I got my first job, my first my first and only really job with Western Electric which you may know of that company, it was the former- is part of the Bell System. It was the manufacturing arm of the Bell System, and it became later AT&T.

00;05;23;11 – 00;05;41;13
Dave Combs
But I worked for that company for 22 and a half years, starting out as a computer programmer, but then progressing through a lot of different jobs. And all of them, though, had to do with technology. So I was- everything I did was around technology. Now I love technology and I guess it’s come from what I said when I was a kid.

00;05;41;14 – 00;05;46;19
Dave Combs
I always wanted to know how did something work. I didn’t want to just play with it. I wanna know how does this thing work?

00;05;47;03 – 00;05;48;13
Anika
And you’re also musical.

00;05;49;00 – 00;06;13;06
Dave Combs
Yeah. You know, and with my parents both playing musical instruments, my father played by ear. He didn’t he didn’t read music very well, but my mother did. And my grandmother Combs, my father’s mother, she was only four foot eight, born in 1894. And she was hard working on a tobacco farm in southwestern Virginia, but she loved music.

00;06;13;09 – 00;06;28;21
Dave Combs
And a lot of my relatives back then, I learned, were really musical. They would, could play the guitar or piano or they loved to sing. But I have with me right here, this is my grandma Combs’ instrument that she gave to me when she passed away.

00;06;28;21 – 00;06;29;13
Anika
Wow.

00;06;29;13 – 00;06;43;23
Dave Combs
In the case where this was, there’s a note right over here in the case, it says, “this harp belongs to my grandson, David Combs”, because every time I went to see Granny Combs, first thing I had to do, she- she’d call me David.

00;06;44;03 – 00;07;36;19
Dave Combs
“Would you tune up my autoharp?” And I would sit down and I would tune it up by ear and get it so relatively it was all good. And then when I got it really sound and good she had sit down and she would turn loose on that autoharp and sing hymns or she- I can still hear her singing Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound. You know, she could just just go on and on. And I loved that. And those memories will be I hope I remember those forever. Hmm. So music was a huge, huge part of my upbringing. And it’s probably not too surprising that eventually when I was finally 33 years old, I wrote my first song. Now you may ask, why did it take you 33 years to write a song?

00;07;37;01 – 00;08;01;06
Dave Combs
Well, Anika, there’s one principle that I have learned that I have tried to abide by now is what you tell a young person as an adult whether you’re a teacher, a parent, a friend, when you are talking to an impressionable teenager, young person, what you say may mean more to them than you ever know. And you’ve heard the stories about people being told they could never do something.

00;08;01;06 – 00;08;05;29
Dave Combs
Yeah. And it took them 50 years to find out that they could do something could do it.

00;08;06;04 – 00;08;08;09
Anika
And that’s what they wish they’d been doing that, 50 years.

00;08;08;25 – 00;08;28;03
Dave Combs
So but nobody had ever told me, Dave, you can write a song. You can write music at all. I love music. I love playing everybody else’s music. I was a choir director in my home church for two years while I was in college. And, you know, I love music, but it never occurred to me. Well, Dave, why don’t you write some of your own?

00;08;28;03 – 00;08;42;06
Dave Combs
You’ve got your own choir here. They could sing it with no problem, but so nobody had ever told me that but in 1981 I was 33 years old. I sat down at my piano like the one back here.

00;08;42;06 – 00;08;42;28
Anika
Yeah.

00;08;42;28 – 00;08;48;22
Dave Combs
And I just started playing. Now, this was a normal for me to play music when I got home from work.

00;08;48;28 – 00;09;01;23
Dave Combs
That’s how I relax. Now, a lot of people have a routine. They have their chill out routines, whether it’s to get on a treadmill and exercise or go for a walk or whatever you do. Mine was to sit at the piano and make some music.

00;09;01;23 – 00;09;02;18
Anika
Wow.

00;09;02;18 – 00;09;11;22
Dave Combs
And so this particular evening, I sit down at my piano and I start playing a song in the key of C, and it just sounds really pretty.

00;09;11;22 – 00;09;31;27
Dave Combs
And I’m playing this song and I get all the way through it, and I didn’t think anything about it, but it was a song I had never heard before, and I just played it. Now, I cannot explain this any other way than it was an inspiration. It was a song. I was the one chosen to play it for the first time.

00;09;32;09 – 00;09;33;11
Dave Combs
That’s the way I look at it.

00;09;33;11 – 00;09;34;09
Anika
That’s really beautiful.

00;09;34;20 – 00;09;49;20
Dave Combs
And my wife came home from work a couple of days later and she says, Dave, I’ve been having this song stuck in my head all day long. I’ve been humming it. What is the name of this song? And she hummed a little bit of it and I said, Well, Linda, it doesn’t have a name. And she goes, What?

00;09;49;29 – 00;10;07;28
Dave Combs
You play it all the time on the piano? Well, it’s just something I made up. And she says, Wow, well, have you written it down? I said, Well, no, I’ve got it up here. I’m not going to forget it. And she says, No, now something might happen to you, and that song would be gone forever, so you better write it down.

00;10;08;07 – 00;10;28;11
Dave Combs
So, yes, ma’am, I did. I wrote I wrote down the melody lines and the chords to go along with it all on a piece of manuscript and stuck it in my piano bench. Well, that was in that 1981 about January timeframe. 1983, some good friends of ours had a little baby girl and her name is Rachel.

00;10;29;07 – 00;10;54;22
Dave Combs
And so we, we were asked by her parents to be her godparents. Well, at Little Rachel’s christening service, Linda and I are sitting there and you know, at this point I’m sure you’ve been to christening services they’re all so touching and special and just precious. And so we’re sitting there and at the end of the formal service I touched Linda and there was a piano at the front of the church up on the platform, a beautiful baby grand piano.

00;10;55;24 – 00;11;13;06
Dave Combs
And so I said, Linda, what about me playing this song that we could never come up with a name for how about me playing it now as part of the service? She says, Well, that’s a great idea. So I went up to Rachel’s parents and the minister and said, Would it be okay If I played a song on the piano now?

00;11;13;26 – 00;11;34;24
Dave Combs
OK, that’d be fine. Everybody sits back down. I go over to the piano and I sit down and I start playing this this tune, and I get all most of the way through it, and I hear the sniffles in the crowd and I’m realizing I’ve got a little some teardrops coming down my cheeks, too, because, you know, first of all, it’s really a special service anyway.

00;11;34;24 – 00;11;54;03
Dave Combs
And then you top, top it off with some really touching music that just turns on the tear ducts. So anyway, at the end of the song, I look up over at little Rachel in the arms of her mother. And I said, From now on, this song will be called Rachel’s Song in her honor. And that’s how it got its name.

00;11;54;21 – 00;12;09;10
Dave Combs
So that for me, was kind of a really turning point for something that I created, really got out of me and into blessing someone else’s life. Yeah. And so that was how the song “Rachel’s Song” got its name.

00;12;10;20 – 00;12;16;28
Anika
And you’re still working in your day job at this point?

00;12;18;00 – 00;12;18;19
Dave Combs
Yes.

00;12;18;26 – 00;12;32;06
Anika
And you’re also writing now this is your first song, and this inspired you to write more songs but tell the story because not everybody in our audience will know the whole story of Rachel.

00;12;33;00 – 00;12;55;10
Dave Combs
All right. Well, you know, so I got it written and got it named. So then what’s next? Yeah, well, you roll the calendar forward about three years to 1986. And at this point in my career I was having to travel around the United States to all the AT&T Western Electric factories to help them implement some new software to run their factories.

00;12;55;16 – 00;13;06;10
Dave Combs
That was my specialty. And so I was there, I guess internal consultant to the factories. One of the factories that I had to go to visit and work at was in Nashville, Tennessee.

00;13;06;10 – 00;13;06;27
Anika
Hmm.

00;13;06;27 – 00;13;21;13
Dave Combs
I think it was devine, ordaned- man upstairs that I should be in Nashville, Tennessee, because Linda says, Wow, you’re in Nashville, why don’t you get a demo recording professionally made by these musicians in Nashville?

00;13;21;28 – 00;13;54;16
Dave Combs
I said, Well, I hadn’t thought about that. That’s a great idea. So I said, OK, but one evening after work, I get my rental car and I go driving around downtown Nashville hoping to find a studio to that would record Rachel’s song for me. And I go over there and a part of town. If you’ve been to Nashville, it’s all it earns its reputation as Music City USA because there are literally hundreds of studios and everything musical I was at over in the part of town called Music Square, and it’s about two square blocks of everything musical.

00;13;54;16 – 00;14;17;28
Dave Combs
It’s the Country Music Hall of Fame and BMI headquarters, Ascap’s headquarters, and the RCA studio that you can tour and wonderful everything musical. I go down this one little side street is called Roy Acuff Place. Now some of your audience will remember Roy Acuff was a very famous, well-loved country music person in Nashville, Tennessee. They named a street after him.

00;14;18;15 – 00;14;32;27
Dave Combs
So I go down Roy Acuff place, and on the right there is this big building that has a barn roof to it. And out front is this big waterwheel like you find it an old mill, you know, these water and grain mills out in the country.

00;14;32;27 – 00;14;33;23
Anika
Wow.

00;14;33;23 – 00;14;37;15
Dave Combs
And on the side of the building, it says the music mill.

00;14;38;10 – 00;14;58;19
Dave Combs
And I thought, well, this is encouraging. So I pull in, I pull in the parking lot, parking, and I can see through the glass door, there’s a man sitting at a desk in the lobby. OK, I finally found somebody at home today. So I go knock on the door and George comes to the door… or this gentleman comes to the door and introduces himself as George Clinton.

00;14;59;06 – 00;15;20;27
Dave Combs
It’s a different George Clinton than everybody else knows. Right. But this George Clinton was a recording engineer in Nashville. Much loved, much beloved person. And I later found out. But George introduced himself and I told him what I was looking for. And he says, well, come on in, Dave. And as I stepped into the lobby, I look over to my left.

00;15;20;27 – 00;15;43;14
Dave Combs
And up on the wall is a life sized picture of Glen Campbell. And here’s a great big picture of the wonderful group called Alabama. Everybody loves the singing of Alabama. Yes. And here’s the Forester sisters and then there’s gold records and platinum records, you know, all around the walls of this place. So, you know, I’m thinking, wow.

00;15;43;23 – 00;15;45;12
Anika
You’re in very good company here.

00;15;45;20 – 00;16;06;06
Dave Combs
And they’re really good company here. And I had never been in a studio before in my life. So George, he says, well, let me give you a tour. There’s nobody recording right now, which is unusual, but at this time of night there was nobody here. And so he said, Let’s go into studio A. Studio A is there big studio.

00;16;06;28 – 00;16;27;23
Dave Combs
So I go in this big room and you could put an orchestra in this this big room. It was huge. And over in the corner was a great big nine foot grand, you know, concert, grand piano and rooms and isolation rooms around the side of the room. And he said, Let’s go into the control room where all the magic happens.

00;16;27;23 – 00;16;56;28
Dave Combs
He said, let me show you something. So he opens this big, thick door, soundproof door into this room about that thick and we go in there and first thing I see is this console, the control console for the thing. Yeah, it was about eight feet long. I don’t have any rows of suites. I think it had 32 channels on it, which is that’s a, it’s a lot it’s a big long console. Sliders and knobs and lights and switches and cables runnin on everywhere.

00;16;56;28 – 00;17;20;16
Dave Combs
And I thought, wow, this is incredible. And around the walls of the room where these digital tape recorders and the recording equipment, and in front of the console were the two big like a monitor speakers so that you can hear it really good sounding, you’re going to sound as good as anywhere. And I said, George, how much does a place like this cost?

00;17;20;20 – 00;17;43;19
Dave Combs
Hmm. He says, Well, remember, this is not 1986. He said, this is $125 an hour plus engineer. And I thought, oh boy, cost in today’s dollars, that’s probably over $400 an hour. I mean that’s that’s way on up there. Yeah. And I wasn’t making anywhere close to that at AT&T. And he said, Well, don’t worry about that.

00;17;43;19 – 00;18;05;08
Dave Combs
He said, The fella who owns this studio owns a small studio across the street. It’s in a former little rent house that was like a little two bedroom house. And he converted it into a studio and it has a baby grand piano and a small console. But he said that one’s $15 an hour plus engineer. I said, Well, I can do that.

00;18;06;08 – 00;18;22;13
Dave Combs
I said, OK, George, now what I need is I need somebody to play the piano for me to play my song. And he said, He thought for a second. He said, I know just the person for you. His name is Gary Prim P-R-I-M. He said, I go to church with him. He’s a wonderful studio musician. Everybody loves Gary.

00;18;22;13 – 00;18;40;04
Dave Combs
He’s a great player. He said, He’ll do a great job for you. I said, Let me go back to my desk and I’ll look up his phone number for him. So he went back, got his Rolodex and looked up Gary Prim; wrote down the phone number for me, gave it to me. I made a beeline back from my hotel room and I called.

00;18;40;10 – 00;19;02;18
Dave Combs
Now this is before cell- I didn’t. Cell phones hadn’t been invented yet and neither had the Internet. So there was no Google or none of this stuff. So I go back and I call Gary Prim on the phone, got his answering machine and you call me back in about 30 minutes, introduced himself. I told him what I was looking for and that George Clinton had recommended him.

00;19;02;23 – 00;19;21;13
Dave Combs
Oh, well, if George said, I can do something here, I can certainly do that. And I said, Well, what do you need? And he said, Well, I just need two things. I need a recording of you playing the song. So I know what it sort of sounds like, and then I need a lead sheet. And I said, OK, what’s a lead sheet?

00;19;22;02 – 00;19;35;16
Dave Combs
I did not know the lane, the lingo of the music in Nashville. He said, Oh, it’s just the chords and the melody written out on a piece of paper. And I said, Well, I’ve got that. I just didn’t know to call it a lead sheet. I already had it.

00;19;36;07 – 00;19;41;18
Anika
But at this point you don’t even because you mentioned you passed ASCAP, you didn’t have the song registered-

00;19;41;29 – 00;19;47;00
Dave Combs
No, nothing was it was just, you know, on a piece of paper is all I had in my head.

00;19;47;03 – 00;19;48;25
Anika
You had a wife who gave you a nudge?

00;19;49;06 – 00;20;11;03
Dave Combs
Yeah, you picked up on that real quick, Anika. A lot of my success in my life and anything I have done, I can have tribute to my wife who’s upstairs right now. So my wife, Linda, is a remarkable person. She is a she’s a wonderful person in her heart. She is the controller of the state of North Carolina, for example, even today.

00;20;11;11 – 00;20;12;03
Anika
Oh, my gosh.

00;20;12;08 – 00;20;32;08
Dave Combs
He manages, you know, billions and billions of dollars for the state of North Carolina with 200 people working for her in the state capital in Raleigh. She’s still working. And don’t tell anybody, but she’s going to be 76 pretty soon. That’s amazing. She has been working 60 years on her 16th birthday. She went out and got a job.

00;20;33;07 – 00;20;35;19
Dave Combs
So she’s been working ever since she was 16 years old.

00;20;35;22 – 00;20;37;07
Anika
You are both our go getters.

00;20;37;22 – 00;21;03;19
Dave Combs
Boy, I tell you, and she is too. So anyway I get I get back home and I send Gary Prim the cassette tape and the rest of me playing it and the little lead sheet and I meet Gary in the studio two weeks later and back in Nashville on August the 22nd, 1986 at 6:00p.m. I’ll never will forget the date time.

00;21;03;19 – 00;21;21;20
Dave Combs
It’s one of those burned in my memory because that’s the day I met Gary Prim for the first time, and that’s the day that Rachel’s Song got recorded. We go into the studio and I won’t go into all the details and you’re going to, when you listen to Rachel’s song on my website and when you go to my home page, it’s right there in the middle.

00;21;21;20 – 00;21;50;15
Dave Combs
You can just click it and hear it. That is the original recording made by Gary on that day. It hadn’t been edited, it hasn’t been altered, remastered, anything. You’re listening to what I heard for the first time, anybody ever played my music. So that was incredible. And when Gary finished that recording, which just blew me away because what he created was, you know, I’d never heard anybody play my music before.

00;21;50;16 – 00;22;07;05
Dave Combs
It was just me playing it. What he played sounded as good to me as any song I’d heard on the radio anywhere. I don’t care who was recording it, whether it was Roger Williams or or Henry Mancini or whatever, it sounded as good as I had heard. So I was excited. As you can imagine.

00;22;07;05 – 00;22;07;18
Anika
Yes.

00;22;07;18 – 00;22;16;07
Dave Combs
And then the rest of the story on this, as Paul Harvey would say, is that I had- I played that song for anybody who would listen to it.

00;22;16;14 – 00;22;39;01
Dave Combs
I had a cassette. They made me a cassette tape that I could play in the car, in a rental car. Anybody who went to lunch with me that week pop, I pop that. You got to listen to this, boys. And so it was but everybody loved it. Everybody. I played it for love. I got back home in Winston-Salem and went to lunch with a good friend of mine on a totally different matter.

00;22;39;25 – 00;23;08;12
Dave Combs
And at lunch time, I was telling him about my recording session on Rachel Song. It turns out the fellow I went to lunch with is named Bob McComb. He also was a radio DJ and had a Saturday morning big band jazz program for about 3 hours where he’d play music and he would talk about it. Wander, he had he knew everything there was to know about big band jazz, he said, and we were having lunch at a cafeteria and he said, Let’s just go to my office.

00;23;08;12 – 00;23;25;22
Dave Combs
I got to hear this song. So we went to Bob’s office and we’re sitting there in his office. He pops the cassette tape in his boom box there in the office to play it. And I can still see him today. The boom box is sitting right here, and Bob is right there. Right at it, listening. He’s got his eyes.

00;23;25;22 – 00;23;48;09
Dave Combs
You know, when you really want to listen to something, you close your eyes and just kind of soak it in. And I can hear Bob to this day saying, mm. Mm hmm. You know that the universal approval sound, I don’t care what language, you know, that means it’s good, right? But he’s he was moved. He had tears coming down his eyes.

00;23;48;09 – 00;24;07;07
Dave Combs
He was he said, this is he said, Dave, this song is a standard. He said, this will be a standard. And I said, well, coming from you, Bob, you’re an expert in music. I hope you’re right. But he said, Dave, you got to let me play this on my radio program. I said, OK, but all I have is this reel-to-reel master tape.

00;24;07;07 – 00;24;26;13
Dave Combs
That’s the only copy in the world of it. So treat it well. So I gave him the master tape and he went to the radio station. They made a copy. Sure enough, that Saturday morning, my song was played on the radio for the first time, and a strange thing happened. The radio station manager called me about an hour later.

00;24;27;22 – 00;24;46;29
Dave Combs
He says, Dave, this has never happened to me. I’ve been in radio over 20 years. And no, this has never happened, he said. As soon as that song got played on the radio, all dozen of our phone lines at the radio station lit up. People were calling in saying, What is that song you’re playing? Would you play that again?

00;24;46;29 – 00;25;04;23
Dave Combs
What was tell me more about this Rachel’s Song and this Combs guy in Winston-Salem and he said, You have got something special. So I thought, Wow, now, now my real challenge is, OK, how do I get it played on all the other radio stations around the country?

00;25;04;23 – 00;25;05;17
Anika
Yeah.

00;25;05;17 – 00;25;11;07
Dave Combs
So to make a long- I did find a way to get the phone numbers for all these easy listening stations.

00;25;11;07 – 00;25;33;22
Dave Combs
There were about 400 of them around the country. I called a ton of them, and I also found out that there was a company called Bonneville Broadcasting that did programing for radio stations. So I got a hold of one person there who he loved Rachel’s Song, and he said, I’m going to put this in my all my stations. 200 of them at one time.

00;25;33;22 – 00;26;00;04
Dave Combs
So you go, you know, that’s like walking into a Wal-Mart and saying, We’re going to put this in all our stores. Boom, you’re suddenly in the big league. So that was what happened with Rachel Song getting played on every easy listening radio station around the country, and I started getting mail from all over the country. People would track me down and write me letters and tell me how much they enjoyed the music and how much it touched their lives.

00;26;00;27 – 00;26;05;08
Anika
And then did you make it available for sale at any point?

00;26;05;20 – 00;26;29;26
Dave Combs
Well that was the next challenge, as you can imagine then and here I am all I have is a cassette tape and at that point I didn’t even have a CD. So this is 1886-1987 timeframe. By 1988, I had written some more music and I went back to Nashville and recorded more songs with Gary Prim and we came out with the album.

00;26;30;01 – 00;26;50;09
Dave Combs
Rachel’s Song is the first song on there, of course, and so then finally I did have a product that I could sell to somebody if they wanted to purchase it, and they all did. So I had cassette tapes made and a CD made of Rachel’s Song. So now I have a product and I have a bunch of people that want it.

00;26;50;26 – 00;27;04;11
Dave Combs
The next question or challenge for any entrepreneur is how do you how do you let people know about your product? They know they can hear it on the radio. That’s a number of people, but that’s a small fraction of the total population. How do you run?

00;27;04;21 – 00;27;11;10
Anika
Yeah, yeah. And this is still before the Internet, before all the ways that you can market a product in the holidays.

00;27;11;18 – 00;27;30;26
Dave Combs
Yeah. So how in the world am I going to- that is that was and my wife and I set down many hours trying to figure out how can we basically get the music out there and let people be aware of it. And you know, we tried I did try to approach the big box stores with back then. We had we did have record stores.

00;27;30;29 – 00;27;55;18
Dave Combs
They called them. That’s because they literally sold vinyl records. And so I approached the big chains of record stores thinking that they would be happy to carry my Rachel’s song because it was such a beautiful song. Turns out they wouldn’t even hardly answer my phone, let alone talk to me about it. I didn’t have a name. They were only interested in a big name that was instantly recognizable, so that didn’t work out.

00;27;55;24 – 00;28;27;12
Dave Combs
So now I’m back to square one again. How do I get my music out into the world? Other than radio? Yeah. And then this is the story, and I encourage people to read the whole details. It’s in my book about how I started with one gift shop playing and selling my music. Now, those of you that travel around on vacation, you go to a tourist town, you go into a really nice gift shop nine times out of ten, you walk in, it looks good, it smells good and it sounds good.

00;28;27;12 – 00;28;36;02
Dave Combs
And most of the time they’re playing pretty music in the shop. No, it’s not going to be really loud, bumpy kind of music. It’s going to be very soft. Soothing.

00;28;36;17 – 00;28;40;08
Anika
Makes you want to stay there, makes you want to show off- inviting.

00;28;40;08 – 00;29;07;17
Dave Combs
And the longer they are in there, the more they’re going to buy. So anyhow, that was the venue that I eventually landed upon to sell my music and that and it was called the Play and Sale Market. And me and two other musicians around the country were the ones who invented that sales channel back then. Nobody else did it with me and a guy on the West Coast and a guy in the middle of the country.

00;29;07;29 – 00;29;34;17
Dave Combs
That’s how we discovered that would buy and sell our music. And it became known as play and sell market. And today everybody does it, but back then it was just me and two of the people. So the long story short is I was able to go from one gift shop to over a thousand gift shops covering the entire country in tourist towns all over the United States, and the story of how I did that is in my book, I would encourage your entrepreneurs to read about that.

00;29;34;17 – 00;29;55;07
Dave Combs
It’d take longer than we have here on the podcast to go into all those details. But it’s an interesting story of how I used big data, which wasn’t even called Big Data back then. It was just numbers. And in some sense I’m an analytical person. I would use my analytical thinking to help me through this process, and I talk about that in the book.

00;29;55;26 – 00;30;01;16
Anika
So yeah. So I really I’m curious because you’re still working your day job at this point.

00;30;01;29 – 00;30;28;23
Dave Combs
At that point I was because I didn’t, I wasn’t able to quit my day job until 1992. And so beginning with Rachel’s Song 1986, the album. 1988 I mean 89, I came out with a Christmas album and shortly thereafter with another album of original music that I did get busy and write more songs and it’s called Beautiful Thoughts and it’s, it’s, it’s also one of my favorite albums.

00;30;28;28 – 00;30;56;04
Dave Combs
It’s called Beautiful Thoughts. So every year thereafter I would come out with it, go back to Nashville and produce another album because I began accumulating my mailing list now when you sell something direct mail direct to the consumer, yeah, you better keep all those addresses. And today in today’s market, you keep their email addresses but back then it was their USPS, their regular mailing, physical mailing address.

00;30;57;01 – 00;31;16;05
Dave Combs
Well, I had grown my mailing list to and up to several thousand at this point once because I had I had the wisdom to put in the back of my cassette tapes and CDs a little old tear out card. Send me this if you want on my mailing list. Well, I get thousands of those little cards coming in.

00;31;16;10 – 00;31;29;27
Dave Combs
So yeah, if you come out with something new, let me know well, I did. And you know, my response rate initially after Rachel’s Song, the second album was virtually 100%.

00;31;29;27 – 00;31;30;11
Anika
That’s amazing.

00;31;30;11 – 00;31;46;29
Dave Combs
Everybody on my list bought the second album and virtually everybody bought the third album and by the fourth it was a little lower. But I was amazed that, you know, when 90% of your people buy another product for you, that’s almost unheard of now.

00;31;46;29 – 00;31;49;03
Dave Combs
That’s, that’s customer loyalty for you.

00;31;49;10 – 00;32;19;28
Anika
Very much so. That’s so unheard of. I mean, especially in today’s world where everybody does email marketing, you get so many emails and most of them you just don’t read because. Yeah, and but I think this is really important for entrepreneurs, too, is the way you built this up, because I’m really seeing a lot of the trend going back towards people want to get mail like in their mailboxes because it’s more unusual to get something that way.

00;32;20;17 – 00;32;39;28
Anika
And so we’re such an easy economy. You know, you go online, but I think marketing and doing more direct mail marketing with fun items and things like that or letting people know who are really interested and engaged with your product is an old school tactic that needs to make a big comeback because we get, you know, email overload.

00;32;39;28 – 00;32;42;14
Anika
It’s so much easier to unsubscribe, unsubscribe, unsubscribe.

00;32;43;24 – 00;33;17;13
Dave Combs
And even with, you know, when you do a podcast like this, you may have let’s say, 10,000 people listening to it, but what percentage of those 10,000 are actually going to go over to their computer and type in Combsmusic.com and go to my website and click on Rachel Song and listen to it and maybe even go to Amazon and buy the book or go to Amazon and buy my CD or whatever, download it. Probably a very small percentage I am finding and you are probably aware of this too, that the response the conversion rate for anything electronic these days is a tiny fraction.

00;33;17;17 – 00;33;18;04
Anika
It really is. Yeah.

00;33;18;06 – 00;33;37;02
Dave Combs
I’ve had people tell me that if you get one out of a thousand people, sometimes that’s a pretty good hit rate because what they do is they just it’s a shotgun approach. You send out a million emails, you get 1% back was pretty big number, but it’s nowhere if you got back. What I did when I started out you’d be a gazillionaire.

00;33;37;02 – 00;33;37;11
Anika
Yeah.

00;33;38;16 – 00;33;48;10
Anika
Well, and to that point, so you have released- you really started releasing an album every single year. How many songs have you created?

00;33;48;20 – 00;34;09;27
Dave Combs
I have personally written over 120. Oh my God. And Gary Prim and I have been in the studio recording over 170 because several of the songs that we recorded, I have four albums of favorite hymns. Of course, I didn’t write those and I have an album of favorite songs like Moon River, Misty and more, all the pretty songs that I grew up enjoying.

00;34;10;07 – 00;34;36;17
Dave Combs
And then I have a patriotic album called Celebrate Freedom, and I have a Christmas album as well. So I’ve got, you know, seven originals for hymns and the patriotic, you know, so I’ve got several, but I’ve recorded over 170. Oh, my gosh. And all of those are available to be streamed and downloaded on virtually every one of the media, the mediums that people are used to going and getting their music and even sheet music.

00;34;36;26 – 00;34;53;29
Dave Combs
I had to go because there are piano players in the world like me every time when I was growing up playing the piano, if I heard a beautiful song first time on the piano, on the radio, I wanted to go by the sheet music because I wanted to play that song to, you know, think about the theme from Love Story, think the Henry Mancini wrote.

00;34;54;19 – 00;35;15;14
Dave Combs
That’s a beautiful song to play and it’s not that hard, but it sure is a pretty song. Well, I needed to do the same thing with my music. So very soon. Well, the second thing I did after getting Rachel song recorded, I transcribed that song that Gary played, and that was his arrangement. So it wasn’t I was not the one that wrote out the notes.

00;35;15;22 – 00;35;36;06
Dave Combs
I had to do it by ear. I had to listen to his recording of my song, Oh my God, say what now? What note is he playing on that? And hit a rewind and play it rewind and play till I got every note just right for every measure of that song. And I published the sheet music a sheet music single of Just Rachel Song So Thousand, I think it was.

00;35;36;12 – 00;35;54;24
Dave Combs
I sold 5000 copies of just the individual sheet music song. People wanted to use it to play in weddings. They wanted to use it for special music and a church service. They wanted to use it for all kinds of occasions or just for their own enjoyment. They just loved playing Rachel’s song

00;35;54;24 – 00;35;59;04
Anika
And movies?

00;35;59;10 – 00;36;24;29
Dave Combs
And well, I have never had my music played for movies. I’ve hoped that it would initially. And a long time ago I had people say, Well, that sounds like a theme song for a love story movie. And I would have it probably would have been nice to have had a big star, you know, a great big hit movie that we played Rachel’s Song as the theme song.

00;36;25;21 – 00;36;50;04
Dave Combs
But in Lincoln, thinking back about it, it probably was a blessing to me that that did not happen. Because when you basically write music for a movie or a big production most musicians lose control of the song that the movie company is going to want to own the rights to publish and sell that music is associated with their movie, and then you would lose control.

00;36;50;04 – 00;37;12;19
Dave Combs
But so far, knock on wood, I still own 100% of the intellectual property of all of my music. Nobody has ever- I’ve never collaborated with anybody else, for they own half of the song and I only own half of it. I still own all of it. So I’m in control as an entrepreneur. I can do put it up on YouTube myself, or I can put it wherever because I own the song.

00;37;12;25 – 00;37;20;19
Dave Combs
Yeah, and I think that’s a blessing in disguise, at least looking back on it, it was I’m glad that nobody ever picked it up, maybe.

00;37;21;11 – 00;37;54;10
Anika
Yeah. But you know, I love the way you tell your story and it’s the way that you are leaving the narrative. It seems like everything is just built upon each other. But I have to say, going back to when you were young, having that entrepreneurial drive, being interested in how things work and having that attitude that’s that set you out on that path to success, and to be able to not just make one song and stop there, but to be, and well-

00;37;54;12 – 00;38;33;19
Anika
And also your love of music, obviously, but to be able to continue and to be so prolific. I think there are a lot of people who wouldn’t have done that, especially you had a day job you have a busy life, you have a family, you have church, you have all these other things going on. But to stay in that space and that zone of inspiration and to continue inspiring others, and I know that’s something that is one of your discussion topics is how much music has moved people and how it has inspired people and how it’s helped them, you know, sometimes in very tough times to get to that next stage of their life and to

00;38;34;03 – 00;38;43;15
Anika
to continue and to feel like, you know, like they mean something and that there’s somewhere for them to be and somewhere for them to belong and go.

00;38;44;05 – 00;38;49;05
Dave Combs
Yeah, exactly. Because I have heard from over now over 50,000 people.

00;38;49;05 – 00;38;50;17
Anika
oh my gosh.

00;38;50;17 – 00;39;14;17
Dave Combs
Now if you want to see what 50,000 letters and like I do have a photograph of my wife and I got our boxes out because we kept all of these letters and notes that are in boxes by year back in my storage room here and I had enough of these boxes and these are like moving, you know, the boxes you use when you’re going to move for I put them on my pool table.

00;39;14;17 – 00;39;35;03
Dave Combs
I’ve got a, you know, a nine foot pool table out here. And so we put these boxes of these letters and notes on my pool table you can’t tell there’s a pool table underneath it. It is. It was stacked full all the way around middle and sides of all these notes and letters that is a lot of correspondence over the years.

00;39;35;22 – 00;40;05;11
Dave Combs
And I published in my book in chapter 21 of my book, there’s 22 pages of just some of the special notes that I got over the years. I selected some that I liked the best and put them in my book. And I love reading those because they’re just so inspirational. They’re, they’re touching, they’re, they’re genuine. They’re from the heart and they’re confirming, they tell me over any time I’m having any doubts or questions about them, am I doing the right thing?

00;40;05;11 – 00;40;33;13
Dave Combs
I’m, I’m hitting a brick wall here. What’s, what’s going on here? I read some of these stories and it’s reaffirming that, yep, you’re on the right path. Just keep at it, keep taking action, and don’t be discouraged. And just remember that now doesn’t mean no sometimes no just means not yet. So anyhow, so those notes and letters really inspired me to really direct my book and to get these stories out to hopefully maybe my story will inspire somebody.

00;40;33;13 – 00;40;55;08
Dave Combs
If I if this podcast just reaches one person that says, OK, I’m getting off my duff now and I’m going to do something with my whatever it is that I’ve been thinking about now for a long time, I want to do something. That will have made it worthwhile to me because you then you really have touched somebody’s life in a positive and meaningful way, and they will benefit from it.

00;40;55;16 – 00;41;18;06
Dave Combs
And you’ll probably never know about it unless they sit down and write me a letter or something. But that’s the kind of feedback and that’s the reward as far as I’m concerned, is to realize that people need these kind of inspirational and encouraging stories to get them to move ahead. And there are three kinds of moments that I have in my book.

00;41;18;06 – 00;41;52;21
Dave Combs
I describe there are defining moments in your life, and those are moments that something happens to you. You have no control over what’s happening. Could be as big as a 911 event in the United States or it could be as, you know, as as small as you know, some accidental something that happened in your life that you really had no control over, whether it’s a, you know, an illness or you met some person that you become engaged with and later marry that person or whatever it is but you something happened that you didn’t control.

00;41;53;01 – 00;42;12;28
Dave Combs
Those are defining moments. Now, there are other moments that we call threshold moments, and those are the moments where you come up to a threshold like a door. And you have to you have to decide what to do next. Am I going to go through that door and take this chance am I going to go take the right fork in the road or the left fork in the road?

00;42;13;08 – 00;42;36;08
Dave Combs
Am I going to just sit here and do nothing or what are you going to do? And so those are really important moments in your life that are really important or can be important of your future success. So those are threshold moments. And the third category of moments I call aha moments. And those are the moments that are so special that you’re sitting there and something happens.

00;42;36;08 – 00;42;57;23
Dave Combs
Like when I heard Gary Prim play Rachel’s song and it sounded as good as anything I ever heard on the radio, that was my aha moment. Now here I was, I still remember what I was thinking I thought, This is it, this is it. Now, I didn’t know what it was, you know, all you know is this this is important.

00;42;58;03 – 00;43;18;00
Dave Combs
This is going to be important. But I don’t where this is going to lead, but this is really, really important. So those are the aha moments in your life. And so I think how you deal with your, your, your, your defining moments and your threshold moments and your aha moments is really important to how you succeed and where you go for the rest of your life.

00;43;18;04 – 00;43;34;26
Anika
Yeah. Yeah. And speaking of that, so you when you’re still working and then you- did the music just take over so much that you said, you know what, I can quit my day job now. I can just be full time in music, which is something you were passionate about but had also turned into a business.

00;43;35;28 – 00;43;42;07
Dave Combs
Well, the the business part of it was, as I was describing, selling the tapes and CDs through the gift shops.

00;43;42;07 – 00;43;42;19
Anika
Yeah.

00;43;42;19 – 00;44;04;13
Dave Combs
Well, that took off in such a manner that I had to hire a full time office manager to help me. I was still working, and so I needed somebody back home. She worked out of my basement in my house, answering the phone, taking orders from gift shops all over the country, and also orders from fans who would call on an 800 number and say, I want to order a CD of Rachel’s song.

00;44;04;13 – 00;44;04;24
Anika
Yeah.

00;44;04;24 – 00;44;34;16
Dave Combs
And so she had to take the credit card in and take down the order and get it ready to ship out. Well, that grew to the point where by 1991, the profits from my music sales were far exceeding what I was making at AT&T now. And I come from a family that my father worked for a large corporation, and my mother worked in an industrial sewing factory, but prior to that they were all farmers.

00;44;34;22 – 00;44;51;03
Dave Combs
So I’m a second generation working for a large company. So Western Electric was a wonderful company to work for, and my family was so happy when I got that job and I was expected and I- people expected me to and I was expecting to work there till I retired.

00;44;51;03 – 00;44;51;22
Anika
Yeah.

00;44;51;22 – 00;45;06;18
Dave Combs
Now you work. You go to work for a big company that’s paying good, whether it’s IBM or GE or some big corporation, you were expected to work there till you earned your 30 year pin and you’re, you’re retired and you know, it’s, that’s that’s your job.

00;45;07;07 – 00;45;34;18
Dave Combs
So for me when I was in and this was 1991 I had been with AT&T 20- going on 24 years. Wow. So I had I didn’t have the 25 year mark yet and I didn’t I wasn’t 50 years old either. I was only 44 years old and so I was six years away from the magic number on the age I was years away on how many years service I had.

00;45;34;22 – 00;45;58;18
Dave Combs
Yeah. So and my music was going through the roof and, and I was having to be 8 hours a day over here and working at my job. And the meanwhile here is my business at home, doing twice what I’m doing at work. And I’m thinking to myself, you know, when, when do I turn loose of my full time job and do my, my music full time?

00;45;59;19 – 00;46;18;09
Dave Combs
So I’m sitting in church one morning. I had been praying about this one of those things that big decision in your life when you’re going to quit your job and do something else full time. And I said, I need to sign it. Lord, I need a sign. Tell me when will I know how will I know when it’s time for me to quit my job and do my music?

00;46;19;06 – 00;46;41;27
Dave Combs
And I’m sitting there and I realize I recalled a letter that I got that week from a fan and it was a letter just a little one sentence letter from a man. And he says, Dave Combs music is what God put you on this planet to do. Signed his name. And I thought, Hmm, was that that man talking to me?

00;46;41;27 – 00;47;06;15
Dave Combs
Or was it the man upstairs talking to me? Yeah. Yeah. And so and I realized I had that wasn’t the only letter like that I’d gotten. People were really saying that your music is really touching people’s lives. And I thought to myself, here I have been expecting the lightning bolt or the thunder to roll and the burning bush and all the big things to happen to really reveal to me that, yeah, now’s the time, Dave.

00;47;06;15 – 00;47;12;22
Dave Combs
Now go do it. And I didn’t realize that, you know, God speaks to us through other people.

00;47;13;11 – 00;47;14;21
Anika
It was right there all the time.

00;47;14;23 – 00;47;32;21
Dave Combs
It was right there in front of me all the time. And I kind of chuckled to myself sitting there in the church, and I thought, Oh, Lord, you probably think I am the densest Christian on the planet, because here you’ve sent me thousands of letters telling me what I need to do. And I’ve been I’ve been praying for the burning bush and the lightning bolt.

00;47;32;21 – 00;47;58;17
Dave Combs
And you’ve already told me a thousand times here what to do. So that after we went home after church that day and I told him, I said, OK, tomorrow I’m turning my resignation into my boss and we’re going to do it. And that’s how I made my decision because it wasn’t a matter of money the money was already overtaking my salary, but it was that that inner drive, that why would you give up working for a fine corporation?

00;47;58;17 – 00;48;00;08
Anika
And Daddy, you know, that.

00;48;00;09 – 00;48;13;14
Dave Combs
Steady income and you know, the insurance and the health benefits, all those kind of things, how can we do this? But it has worked out marvelously. I never looked back I have had not one ounce of regret in making that decision.

00;48;15;09 – 00;48;25;25
Anika
I love it. Thank you so much. This is such an inspiring journey that you took us on. Your story is amazing and beautiful. What’s next?

00;48;25;25 – 00;48;31;10
Dave Combs
Well, that’s a good question here. I’m going to be 75 years old and about a week and a half and.

00;48;31;23 – 00;48;32;03
Anika
Happy Birthday.

00;48;32;27 – 00;48;50;19
Dave Combs
Thank you and my wife’s going to be retiring from her job as controller of the state of North Carolina at the end of June. We hope to do a little bit of traveling now that hopefully the COVID virus is hopefully stays low enough to where we can visit some relatives and friends that we haven’t seen in two or three years.

00;48;50;24 – 00;49;08;19
Dave Combs
So we want to do a little traveling, but my music is still a big priority for me. I am appearing on three or four of these podcasts almost every day, telling my story and trying to get the word out to to people that have never heard of Rachel’s Song or any of my music because yeah, it’s been played millions of times.

00;49;08;26 – 00;49;35;20
Dave Combs
Millions of people have heard it, but how many millions of people are on this planet? There are billions of people on the planet that have never heard my music. So my goal, one of my goals is to spread my music around the world as best I can, because I know when people hear my music in the right environment, in the right place, it brings them peace and tranquility and it reaches into their soul and does something really positive for them.

00;49;35;24 – 00;49;55;13
Dave Combs
And so that’s that’s my long term objective. And thank goodness we have the Internet today, because whether you’re here this morning, I had to get up at 3:00 in the morning for a podcast for our lady in Germany, and she’d already been up for eight, eight or 9 hours, but I had to get up 3:00 in the morning to be on her podcast. Wonderful interview.

00;49;55;18 – 00;50;16;00
Dave Combs
But isn’t it amazing that here we can be right? It looks like you might as well be in the room right next to me because there’s no delay. It’s this technology is really allowed us to communicate with anybody, anywhere in the world just like that. So I’m blessed to have that available as well. And I’m trying to take advantage of that as much as I can.

00;50;16;16 – 00;50;42;28
Anika
Wow. Well, thank you very much for sharing your story with us today. I know I’m inspired. I’ve been on your website. I’m going to do more on your website and listen to a song a few more times and just, you know. Yeah. Gives you this is a great way to just and almost end the week and feel like, OK, I’m refreshed to go into the weekend and continue down this road of inspiration.

00;50;43;09 – 00;51;00;09
Anika
And abundance and really living. I love that you’ve been able to really live in that space of everything you love and enjoy. And that what inspires you can inspire so many. So Dave, thank you so much for being here. Any last thoughts you want to share with the audience?

00;51;00;15 – 00;51;17;16
Dave Combs
I just want to thank you, Anika, for the privilege of being on your program today. It’s been a real joy just to talk with you, and I wish you the best with your podcast and with your audience. And I know you’re going to do well, and I just applaud you for what you’re doing.

00;51;17;20 – 00;51;36;15
Anika
Oh, thank you. Appreciate that. I will have all of your information in the show notes for our audience. So that way they can go to your website, they can know where to find your book and listen to your music. So thank you, everybody, for coming back and listening to this really inspirational episode of Your Brand Amplified. I’ll be back again next week.

00;51;37;14 – 00;51;44;07
Anika
Want more? Check out AmplifywithAnika.com or follow me on socials @AmplifywithAnika.

00;00;01;05 – 00;00;20;21
Anika
Welcome to Your Brand Amplified the podcast where we interview marketers, publicists and brands to learn their stories, what makes them tick and tips and tricks that make a difference. Welcome to another edition of Your Brand Amplified. I’m Anika Jackson. And I am really excited to be here with Lars Dabney. Hi, Lars. How are you?

00;00;21;05 – 00;00;22;17
Lars Dabney
I’m good. How are you doing, Anika?

00;00;22;19 – 00;00;44;01
Anika
I am great. So before we get into your business, your background is so varied and interesting. I’d love for you to talk about, you know, where you grew up, all of your languages, all of the different things that led you to where you are right now. Yeah, that’s a lot like a condensed version.

00;00;44;25 – 00;01;08;10
Lars Dabney
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, you know, short version, I grew up kind of all over the place. My dad’s work moved our family around about every two years. And I think that I had to just trying a lot of different things. You know, every time we move somewhere new, I’d be like, Oh, I’m gonna join this new club or try this new activity or whatever it may be.

00;01;09;26 – 00;01;30;18
Lars Dabney
I also went to a lot of schools that like to, you know, talk about the Renaissance man. I went to I went to an all boys school in a couple of occasions. And, you know, we’re going to raise your boys to be a Renaissance man. And I think like, you know, almost nobody takes that seriously. But I guess I did because I was just like, very well, I shall do everything.

00;01;32;04 – 00;01;47;26
Lars Dabney
So, yeah, I you know, between them moving around, I was able to experience a lot of different cultures and sort of mentalities about things. That was also where the languages started. I speak five languages, Mandarin, German, French, Spanish, and English.

00;01;50;00 – 00;02;09;18
Lars Dabney
And I just I just got really I really like learning them. They’re fun. And it’s definitely, you know, it gets easier as you learn more of them, right. Like, each new language Spanish was astonishingly quick. That was that was the one I picked up most recently. Also helped that I was immersing at the time. I was like, Argentina.

00;02;09;24 – 00;02;11;15
Anika
Oh, yeah. That’s. Yeah.

00;02;12;28 – 00;02;30;03
Lars Dabney
So but yeah, I and then, you know, I kind of got to college I had gotten really into politics was like, cool. I want to do like international politics. As I think many freshman undergrads often think.

00;02;30;03 – 00;02;32;22
Anika
Bright eyed, head full of ideas.

00;02;33;01 – 00;02;33;19
Lars Dabney
Poli Sci, that’s cool.

00;02;33;19 – 00;02;34;08
Anika
Change the world.

00;02;34;17 – 00;03;06;07
Lars Dabney
Yeah. You’d take a poli sci course and you’re like, Wow, this is dry as toast. So I, I wound up kind of graduating with this major in East Asian languages and cultures and a minor in poli sci like, okay, I’m gonna go do foreign foreign politics or foreign service in China. But then at the last second, I got really interested in human rights law and I kind of always knew that I wanted to fight dragons to put it in, in terms.

00;03;06;19 – 00;03;13;25
Lars Dabney
Based on the book I was obsessed with as a child, which was St George and the Dragon by Margaret Hodges, illustrated by Trina Schart Hyman.

00;03;17;00 – 00;03;44;00
Lars Dabney
And and so I knew I wanted to like, you know, fight the good fight. And so I wound up pursuing a lot of different pathways in the kind of like public sector, either government or nonprofits. I worked as a journalist. I was a war correspondent for a while. Right after law school, I was a journalist in law school and afterwards and then went to Afghanistan for a while and then worked for the State Department.

00;03;44;00 – 00;04;10;20
Lars Dabney
anti-Human trafficking kind of wound up being the pathway that I pursued after law school. And love that work, but hit a point where I was I wanted to have this really high level strategic influence on what was happening in my field, in large part because it’s a very young field. And I actually think candidly, there’s a lot of misguided notions about what’s effective and about how to actually impact that sector.

00;04;10;26 – 00;04;26;28
Lars Dabney
Yeah, that phenomenon, a lot of people are really obsessed with prosecuting and like it doesn’t work. Like it’s statistically like if you actually do like an analysis of the numbers, it makes no difference. And conversely, like, economic interventions can be very effective.

00;04;27;00 – 00;04;45;12
Anika
Right. So and this is one of my core issue areas. And but I go through I, I attack it from like how can I help people get more education? Right. Because more education equals better health outcomes equals less likely to be trafficked. There’s so many implications.

00;04;45;26 – 00;05;04;12
Lars Dabney
So many implications. Right? So those kinds of systemic interventions was what I wanted to see more focus on. But as an attorney, as a field investigator, I was kind of a cog in the machine. And so I was like, all right, I want to be able to influence things at a higher level. You a quick head check on who’s in charge here.

00;05;05;01 – 00;05;27;21
Lars Dabney
And of course, all the people in charge. None of them were from the field. They were none of them are from the sector. You know, they most of them didn’t even really have a background in rights of any kind. They were there because they had money and power. And so, you know, they had been tapped because they could bring in the funders or because they had a friend who was, you know, the president or whatever it may be.

00;05;28;03 – 00;05;47;18
Lars Dabney
And and I was like, OK, so I guess I need money and power if I want to be able to have that kind of impact. I have no savings because I have a career in the public sector by now. So what what can I do? And I had I had been building websites back in college as a way to make beer money, and it kind of stuck with it.

00;05;47;18 – 00;06;09;00
Lars Dabney
Did projects here and there over the years, kept getting more and more into it. So I was like, you know, what, I’m going to I’m going to start an agency because the startup cost for that is, do you have a laptop? Yep. And and then I’m going to you know, build build that up and build an agency that kind of represents a lot of the ideals that I want to see in the world.

00;06;09;00 – 00;06;26;25
Lars Dabney
Right. That that we work with people who whose causes we care about, who like who we really actually genuinely support. And we don’t work with people who we don’t. And that like the way we work is really sort of embracing of the team and that we bring a lot of the kind of principles that I grew up in Australia.

00;06;26;25 – 00;06;50;05
Lars Dabney
Right? So the minimum legal required holidays there is 20, 20 days of paid vacation per year. So I was like cool. That’s as a matter of fact, we have an open vacation policy. You know, I encourage my team if anybody is going to have less than 20 in a given year, I’m like, hey, why don’t you put some stuff on the calendar and you know, full health care, all this kind of stuff that’s like a perk in the US, so sorry.

00;06;50;16 – 00;07;14;21
Anika
You know, interestingly so the company that I merged with most recently is based in Australia. Yeah, right. Yes. So we have unlimited PTO, we have mental health days once a month. They’re doing a lot like one of our new New Zealand agencies had some really amazing thought leaders. So now we’re doing a lot of seminars that are mandatory for to improve ourselves, not even talking about work.

00;07;14;21 – 00;07;37;23
Anika
Right. And they’re really incorporating a lot of that insurance. 100% paid for all of those things that just seem like they should be basic human rights and not based on the economics, because I know that, OK, if I want to take this time off, I want to make sure I’m doing an amazing job and doing everything I can to so that I can just go and take time off and not be stressed.

00;07;37;24 – 00;07;41;22
Anika
Right. And so I think it actually really helps people not to digress like.

00;07;41;27 – 00;07;59;27
Lars Dabney
No, no, I think that’s exactly it. Right? I think it has huge benefits and and yeah, just trying to apply a lot of those, you know, the thoughts that I’ve had over the years working at places I did like and places I didn’t like with bosses I liked or didn’t like and just trying to like, say, like, all right, can I can I do a better job, right?

00;07;59;27 – 00;08;31;20
Lars Dabney
Can I can I build a better mousetrap here? And that’s been a really fun project. And I think one thing that I have taken a lot of personal got a lot of personal happiness out of is how much my team likes working at my company. Yeah. You know, everybody is just really happy to be there. And and says so, you know, repeatedly, like I have one on ones with every on my team each month and they’re always just like so stoked to be able to find a place like that.

00;08;32;24 – 00;08;36;19
Lars Dabney
And yeah, so that’s, that’s been really that’s been really good.

00;08;37;28 – 00;08;52;06
Anika
So yeah. So you went through this whole career and you had a law degree. You were a war journalist, you worked in the public sector, and then you realized that you could create change through websites so what does that look like?

00;08;53;06 – 00;09;38;16
Lars Dabney
Yeah. So I think, you know, as, as a kind of mid generation millennial, the the realization that like technology has all this capacity right? That’s not news at this point. Pretty much everybody’s figured that out now. But awareness of how to really tap into that, I think is still pretty limited you know, and and particularly in the nonprofit sector where budgets are always tight and people are always, you know, have too many jobs to do, too many hats to wear, and, you know, often the tech technological side of things, the digital side of things gets relegated to somebody who’s already got a full time job doing other stuff.

00;09;38;16 – 00;09;54;28
Lars Dabney
Right. But, you know, they get told, hey, somebody’s got to do the website. So you’re in charge now. And and I had seen that at different organizations I worked at. And I was like, you know, I feel like I could really, you know, by being focused on this, I can actually really weaponize the Internet for these causes that I care about.

00;09;56;17 – 00;10;18;18
Lars Dabney
And so we we do work in the anti-trafficking sector since that’s my background and that’s I have a network there, but we do a lot across a bunch of different nonprofit sectors. And that’s not all of our clients, I guess. 50, 60% of our client base is nonprofits we work for. I’m really keen on working for social enterprises, which is kind of effectively what we are.

00;10;18;22 – 00;10;40;03
Lars Dabney
I think it’s pretty vague term, but but yeah, you know, I, I love to sit down and say like, look, you know, you and many people look at a website and you’re like, Oh, well I got to have a website because you had to have one, right? You know, it’s like business cards. So let’s put the thing on there.

00;10;40;03 – 00;10;59;03
Lars Dabney
Like we’ll have the, the home page and we’ll have a about page and the contact form and the team page and we’re done. And I love sitting down and being like, Look, actually, you’re spending all this money and this can do things for your mission. You know, if you are a group that’s that’s focused on building up a grassroots community, right?

00;10;59;05 – 00;11;22;27
Lars Dabney
That’s really engaged not just with your organization, but with each other because that’s where you get traction from. Yeah, we can we can accelerate that in a very serious way by building this website intelligently. And that’s true for nonprofits as it is for for profits. I was just talking with a company that has a food products that works with is very focused on the extreme sports sector.

00;11;22;27 – 00;11;48;00
Lars Dabney
Right. And so they have a whole community of like extreme sports athletes and they’re like, we really want to make more use of these guys and get them more engaged. And I’m like, cool. I have this great toolkit for that because I’ve been doing with all these nonprofits and thinking about, you know, building stories, I think great is like that’s kind of the essence of it is this this story that gets stuck in people’s head of-

00;11;48;01 – 00;12;02;06
Lars Dabney
Oh, yeah. I remember the time I went there and I met this person or like I went to the website and, and I learned about this thing and I got really jazzed and I emailed this person and they got back to me and then I went and I volunteered at this event and I met this person. And now we’re getting married and having kids.

00;12;03;03 – 00;12;30;15
Lars Dabney
You know, it’s like that’s an extreme version perhaps. But I think I think building those experiences and thinking about the website as part of the larger mission and world right? Something that actually advances what the company or the organization is trying to do, but is also like one step in in this larger interaction that a human being is having with your brand or your organization.

00;12;30;24 – 00;13;11;01
Anika
Well, and I think I think what you’re saying right there is very important because anybody can go to an easy website builder website or like hire somebody inexpensive, which I’m not knocking that, right? But and get a very templated standard website that, like you said, it just has basic information. It’s not really telling your story. And websites like social media, like PR, like your advertising campaigns, everything has to be so integrated and tell a part of that story in that narrative that you really want to show who you are, because especially I think this is something where you and I have obviously always kind of lived in this space of really wanting to be authentic

00;13;11;01 – 00;13;32;03
Anika
and raw and real and transparent. And I think that brand is whether they’re nonprofit, for profit social enterprises, are scene our finally kind of realizing, oh yeah, we don’t just want to say our spot on our message and think people are going to come and respond to it. We need to show up in a way that is really integrated and that really shows people that we believe in what we’re saying.

00;13;32;18 – 00;13;58;14
Lars Dabney
Yes. Yes, that’s exactly right. I think that authenticity is the single most valuable piece that you can have and what you’re kind of putting out there to the world. You know, we all get bombarded by advertising constantly. Yeah, we know what it sounds like when it’s fake. You know, when, when, when Pepsi is what was it they did that video with people singing in the middle of the pandemic and everybody was like, no guys.

00;13;58;15 – 00;13;59;04
Lars Dabney
No.

00;13;59;21 – 00;14;13;18
Anika
Yeah. I think they had some influencer or reality star in it and all of those things. And it just yeah, it was completely oh, it was the Black Lives Matter, right? Or one of them had one of those. And yeah, it was.

00;14;14;02 – 00;14;24;23
Lars Dabney
Oh, that’s right. It was it was the George Floyd protest. Right. And it was like, who is it? Like Kendall Jenner? Like, went up to a to a cop and gave him a Pepsi. And he was like, not the point guy. Yeah.

00;14;24;28 – 00;14;28;27
Anika
Yeah. Completely missing the boat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00;14;29;17 – 00;14;56;03
Lars Dabney
Yeah. And so I think that that authenticity is like huge. And and, you know, I think your company your work and mine share this aspect that, like, we can’t be authentic if we’re working for a client that we don’t actually believe in. You know, and so we’re picky about who we work with because because we want to be authentic, because that’s at the end of the day, that makes me feel like I’m living a worthwhile life.

00;14;57;29 – 00;14;58;29
Lars Dabney
And. Yeah.

00;14;59;11 – 00;15;08;04
Anika
Yeah. So do you turn down clients? Like, if somebody comes to you and you realize that, oh, wow, this is really not a fit, how do you how do you. Yeah, that’s just a yes.

00;15;08;19 – 00;15;30;13
Lars Dabney
Yeah. Yeah, we do. I haven’t turned down a ton. You know, I think, like, honestly, I think this is because we were originally based in D.C., the most common issue. And this is going to sound funny coming from a war correspondent, but like, we don’t do anything with the military and I, let me be clear. I support the military.

00;15;30;13 – 00;15;51;20
Lars Dabney
I have nothing wrong with people being in the military. And, you know, my my dad’s family is from Annapolis. Like we posted mids the whole thing. Right. We’re actually kind of a military family. But broadly speaking, I am, you know, loosely a pacifist. I went to war as a journalist to inform people about the cost of war.

00;15;51;20 – 00;16;13;08
Lars Dabney
I, I don’t want my work to help people kill people. Yeah, and and even if it’s good guys killing bad guys, I just, I don’t think that’s that’s a path that leads to, you know, the outcome that we all want, which is world peace, right? Every Ms. Universe, since ever has said yeah.

00;16;13;08 – 00;16;31;24
Anika
I think that’s one of the things is because I had my own company, and then now I’ve merged with another company, and I know that the ideals of some of the new clients might not be the same as mine. So reconciling that. But I think what I can do is continue bringing in the kind of clients that I do want to work with.

00;16;32;04 – 00;16;52;05
Anika
Right. And shifting things that way and showing these clients might be nonprofits or social enterprise are doing good in the world, but they still have budgets for marketing and PR, they still have money to spend. And so why not spend it with us where we can, you know, hopefully make an even bigger impact using kind of like a little bit bigger agency scale.

00;16;52;22 – 00;17;20;27
Lars Dabney
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s exactly right. You know, it’s like that the tilting of the scales is it’s always contextual right? But like, bending rather than tilting the scales, maybe bending the arc of history towards justice, right? That is that is very much you know, taking the resources of a large organization like Bastion and, and applying it to the kinds of causes that you care about is awesome, right?

00;17;20;28 – 00;17;43;15
Lars Dabney
You know, and that that makes a huge difference to. So, yeah. And, yeah, so, you know, I think I think picking those those clients and working on those stories then that, like you care about is is good for the clients, good for their work. But personally, it’s good, right? That’s that’s the main reason it’s like at the end of the day, I want to go to bed feeling like I’m happy about the.

00;17;43;15 – 00;17;47;18
Anika
Stuff that I’m working on. Absolutely. So how long is Lightning Fruit been around?

00;17;47;18 – 00;17;50;08
Lars Dabney
Six and a half years?

00;17;50;17 – 00;17;54;28
Anika
Six and a half years. Awesome. And survived through the pandemic, all of that.

00;17;55;11 – 00;18;21;23
Lars Dabney
Yeah. Yeah. Did did survive through the pandemic. You know, unfortunately, I know a lot of digital agencies actually did quite well in the pandemic, but because so much of our client base were nonprofits. Yeah. And the first line item to get cut when the economy goes south is donations. Our client base took a pretty heavy hit, but we did a lot of pro bono work during that time and helped get people kind of back on their feet.

00;18;21;23 – 00;18;45;18
Lars Dabney
And, yeah, it’s, you know, everything’s back in action now, so but yeah, it’s been six and a half years the first four months of that, I still had a full time job. I was doing evenings and weekends. Yeah, yeah. But, but yeah. And then I got, got a big contract and was like, cool, this is enough for me to huck myself into the void and see how it goes.

00;18;46;01 – 00;19;00;08
Anika
Awesome. I love it. What else inspires and motivates you? It’s I mean, I know obviously your work is very inspiring and motivating, and I love that you get that you and your team get to get up every day and be so excited about what you’re doing.

00;19;01;04 – 00;19;27;17
Lars Dabney
Yeah. Honestly, like, I love the creative aspect of things. Like, I love, I love just like thinking about how to either visually or narratively create something that’s like art, right? Effectively and and the some of the websites that we work on, I’m just so stoked about how they visually look and how the animations work and all this kind of stuff.

00;19;28;24 – 00;19;44;16
Lars Dabney
And I love the like the feeling that gives to the viewer when they visit that, right? Like that that kind of like the way it pulls them in to the story that’s being told and and I really like people. I like I like talking to people. I like working with people. I like, you know, I’m a people person.

00;19;45;19 – 00;20;00;09
Lars Dabney
So just, you know, having conversations with. Yeah, like this one or with clients or whatever, you know, collaborating on things that’s just fuel for the for the fire for me as well.

00;20;00;09 – 00;20;32;20
Anika
And I love that we met, I think on LinkedIn. But yeah, but it’s it’s wonderful when you meet people on LinkedIn and you see that they have the same values and, you know, you can make that connection. Even though we live in totally different states, we’ve never met in person and that really inspires me meeting people like you who are doing amazing things and are able to do what I think is everybody well, I don’t know if it’s everybody’s ideal, but it’s certainly mine is being able to, like, feel really good about getting up every morning for everything that you’re doing in your life.

00;20;32;20 – 00;20;42;00
Anika
Right? So websites, is there anything next going to continue developing what you’re doing or are you going to become a B Corp like?

00;20;42;21 – 00;21;07;05
Lars Dabney
Yeah, actually, B Corp has been on the on the list for a while. I mean, the process is involved. I just haven’t had the bandwidth to really kind of give it the attention it needs to figure that out. But definitely I’m aiming to do that. Eventually. I think, you know, one of the things that’s kind of coming down the pipe for us probably not too far off, is I want to actually experiment a little bit with the corporate structure.

00;21;08;11 – 00;21;28;08
Lars Dabney
I I, I, as, as you may have picked up, I’m kind of a lefty and, and I’m a little skeptical or not skeptical, but I think like the next major step that we as a species need to take is kind of reinventing or evolving capitalism because like the way it’s structured right now is not working

00;21;28;08 – 00;21;31;19
Anika
Well, it’s corporatism. You know.

00;21;32;01 – 00;22;00;27
Lars Dabney
Exactly. Exactly. And Jeff Bezos becoming Emperor of the moon is not something that I see as like, a positive for humanity. So I’m really intrigued by, you know, looking at things like collective kind of structures, you know, cooperative type things. So that’s something that as I get the team a little bigger and as I get writing through it into more of a position where it can kind of run itself, that that I really want to do with that, that I kind of want to turn it into some sort of hippie commune.

00;22;01;06 – 00;22;18;22
Anika
Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s I mean, again, I’m like generalizing, like everybody wants to that like, no, not everybody wants to do that. But definitely my friends and I always talked about like let’s get some land and we’ll have like some common, you know, Eddy use where we have the common kitchen and living spaces.

00;22;19;06 – 00;22;19;25
Lars Dabney
Where I grew up in-

00;22;19;25 – 00;22;25;08
Anika
In many homes that we can go off to except without becoming a cult. How do you work that?

00;22;25;27 – 00;22;26;19
Lars Dabney
That’s the trick.

00;22;27;03 – 00;22;27;14
Anika
Yeah.

00;22;27;23 – 00;22;42;15
Lars Dabney
Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I don’t know if you’ve ever read anything about Bow Grippin, but that’s like the German version of it, and I love them. I read an article about it years and years ago, and I sent it to all my friends was like, Let’s do this. Of course we were all in college and nobody had any money.

00;22;42;15 – 00;22;45;19
Lars Dabney
We couldn’t buy property. So it’s not happening. But one day.

00;22;47;12 – 00;22;49;07
Anika
So what is your ideal client?

00;22;50;12 – 00;23;11;18
Lars Dabney
Oh, gosh, I think my personally my ideal client right now, which is which is very much like a moment to moment thing because it’s kind of based on like what I’m really interested in because I do a lot of very sort of selective client outreach. And my ideal client would right now would probably be a social enterprise, right?

00;23;11;18 – 00;23;41;07
Lars Dabney
I’d like to work with a business that is using its business model to shift the way the world works in a good way. And one who, you know, both both has an actual substantial component of it that’s digital, right? Their business model and he recognizes how important that is. Right. And and the potential that it has that like, hey, you know, this is this is something that we really want to spend time on.

00;23;41;16 – 00;24;02;25
Lars Dabney
That we want to think about. And that, like, once we build our digital framework, you know, not just website, but your email campaign, your criminal, this kind of stuff, it’s an ongoing and continuous sharpening effort after that. Right. We don’t it’s not set and forget we want to keep leaning in and like making it better and pushing the numbers in the right direction.

00;24;02;25 – 00;24;23;10
Lars Dabney
Yeah. And you know, in particular, I think lately I’ve been very focused on environmental causes. So I would love to work with a social enterprise that had built a business model around doing something to help save the planet from impending doom. So yeah, that’s, that’s probably my ideal client right now, OK?

00;24;23;26 – 00;24;38;16
Anika
And when somebody comes into you they get a website, you also do like digital marketing advice, SEO, all of like the entire comprehensive digital universe, or?

00;24;38;16 – 00;25;02;00
Lars Dabney
The one piece we don’t do yet is, is digital ad buys. So, so we can actually build the ads or design them if people need us to. And we will analyze the data from those campaigns to assess what changes we should be making on the website or in other pieces of the ecosystem to try and optimize the impact of those campaigns.

00;25;02;10 – 00;25;30;09
Lars Dabney
But we don’t do the actual buys yet because we just don’t have a person on our team who has the right expertize yet. That is a higher I’m looking to make in the next year or so. We will be adding that. But yeah, I mean, beyond that, we do development, we do design, we do. You know what? I kind of broadly refer to his digital strategy, which is that looking at all these pieces of the digital ecosystem and doing this kind of analysis of the data and saying like, all right, you know, we’ve got some bottlenecks here.

00;25;30;09 – 00;25;37;15
Lars Dabney
We’ve got like a fall off at this point, like, yeah, let’s fix these so we can see that big number go up in the right direction. We want it to.

00;25;37;27 – 00;26;02;24
Anika
Yeah, I don’t, I don’t think the normal person who’s trying to get a website and like looking at things understands all the analytics and data mining and things that you have to do behind the scenes to make sure that, you know, I think like somebody I know was working on a website for a nonprofit in San Diego, and they’re realizing people were clicking through like on all these random places weren’t going.

00;26;02;28 – 00;26;20;23
Anika
So they’re like, OK, we’re just going to make all of these links like every word clickable so that it has to where we want them to direct to, to donate or to, you know, decide to fly or whatever. But there is like those little nuances and tweaks that go into the design. And then also you look at brand strategy.

00;26;20;24 – 00;26;25;28
Anika
Does that do they have a brand strategy, do they not, how does that play into it? Right.

00;26;25;28 – 00;26;44;23
Lars Dabney
So yeah, yeah. No, totally. And I think analytics, you know, Google Analytics or honestly any of the different analytics tools out there, they don’t they don’t make it easy, you know, if you’re not already pretty familiar with them. Like when you first pull up a Google Analytics dashboard, you’re just like, what am I supposed to do with this?

00;26;44;24 – 00;27;17;11
Lars Dabney
Another language any of this mean? It is very much another language. So, you know, I think I think being able to help people kind of recognize like yeah, you know, for starters, like, yeah, you need it. I definitely do recommend people to Squarespace solution sometimes, right? When they come to me and they’re like, hey, I’m starting up my solopreneur business and I’ve got, you know, my budget is x hundred dollars and I’m like, don’t hire Dev, because then you’re going to be disappointed and frustrated because you don’t have enough budget for them to do a proper job on this.

00;27;17;21 – 00;27;50;13
Lars Dabney
But you can absolutely do this yourself on Squarespace. And, you know, I can give people like pointers on how to make that work well for them and how to get up and running with that. Yeah. And I have seen people produce, you know, great sort of brass plaque type websites, brochure websites that just kind of, you know, give them that digital presence and then down the road as they grow, you know, have that conversation about like, hey, yeah, you know, if you want to think about how to like really try and improve the number of people coming in from your ads who are actually then selling out your contact form, that’s that’s where we come

00;27;50;13 – 00;27;52;09
Lars Dabney
in. You know, and that’s what we can really help you with.

00;27;52;25 – 00;28;06;12
Anika
Awesome. Well, is there anything that we haven’t covered that you wanted to share with the audience today? If somebody is looking at, you know, how to make sure that they have a website that presents who they are in the world in their brand?

00;28;06;28 – 00;28;47;21
Lars Dabney
Yeah. I think honestly, like one of the things I would say in the context of the last like two to five years is that like never underestimate the impact that your voice has, that your businesses or your brand’s voice has. You know, it is society is collective, right? The societal changes, our collective and putting the effort in to express what you care about and to and to say like, hey, we are we’re a company that really like we give a damn about plastic in the ocean.

00;28;47;25 – 00;29;08;09
Lars Dabney
And granted, that’s kind of remote from what we actually do. But like we put the effort in and we minimize packaging waste and we have taken these steps to like recycle these components. You know, it’s it might seem small compared to all the other things that you’re trying to do with your website. But like that that can shift the social dialog, right?

00;29;08;09 – 00;29;32;12
Lars Dabney
Other people see that and like, oh, I didn’t know that was possible. And maybe I should be doing that with my company or asking the, the other company that I buy stuff from what they’re doing about this. Yeah. And it just, you know, it has this knock on effect and so I think I think putting your, your ideas into your brand, into the work that you’re doing, into the thing that consumes 80% of your time right.

00;29;33;17 – 00;29;44;03
Lars Dabney
Is it can be so much more significant than you realize and is so true worthwhile thing to do and so yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s my like say.

00;29;44;26 – 00;30;06;07
Anika
That’s great advice and it’s something I was actually thinking of like oh yeah. Because I’m about, I’m redoing like my own personal brand stuff and I’m like, yeah, I need to really like put all that stuff on there as I’m thinking about like how I want it to look and feel like. So people really understand, like, what my values are and who I am and how I’m going to shop for them is the same way I’m going to shop for myself.

00;30;06;07 – 00;30;08;18
Anika
Right? That’s the goal.

00;30;09;06 – 00;30;10;16
Lars Dabney
Yeah, yeah. Totally.

00;30;10;27 – 00;30;15;18
Anika
So Lightingfruit.com and on all socials.

00;30;16;20 – 00;30;23;23
Lars Dabney
Yes, Lighting Fruit on all of the socials. It’s fortunately and nobody else uses that name. Yeah, we got we got the OG handle on all of ’em.

00;30;25;04 – 00;30;26;22
Anika
How did you come up with that name?

00;30;28;00 – 00;31;03;13
Lars Dabney
So there’s an elaborate story on somewhere on I think it’s on an old version of our website involving like a grandfather of mine who was a pirate captain in Madagascar and a lemon tree on top of his house. Well, but the actual story is word association. I was just like, OK, Internet, digital electricity, lightning name and and then fruit is like, you know, the fruit of our labors, you know, this good thing that we’ve created and that we give to you, you know, it’s got a lot of positive connotations so yeah, slap those two together and like before you go, awesome.

00;31;04;16 – 00;31;05;26
Anika
Do you have a favorite quote?

00;31;07;03 – 00;31;15;10
Lars Dabney
Oh, favorite quote. Oh, yeah. Hang on now, let me pull up Facebook. I haven’t I haven’t looked at my Facebook profile in forever, but I do have some quotes on there.

00;31;15;14 – 00;31;15;24
Anika
Nice.

00;31;17;11 – 00;31;40;11
Lars Dabney
I will say, I quote I quote, MLK on the arc of history bends towards justice all the time because I’m a diehard optimist. And like when people are bemoaning the doom and gloom of the world, I’m always like, I think we’ll get there as a species eventually. But oh, man, this is it. OK, so this quotes from a Terry Pratchett book.

00;31;40;11 – 00;31;42;18
Lars Dabney
I don’t know if you know Terry Pratchett. You do.

00;31;43;13 – 00;31;44;07
Anika
No? I don’t know.

00;31;44;15 – 00;32;13;19
Lars Dabney
Oh, yeah. So he’s a he’s a British- was, he passed away recently unfortunately. He’s a British comedic author, And he’s written this extensive series of books in this place called The Discworld, which is very much a parody of our world. And each book kind of focuses on parodying a particular thing. OK, now here’s a question. Do you know where to find the quote section on a Facebook profile?

00;32;13;22 – 00;32;18;16
Lars Dabney
Is it in About still? No, no.

00;32;18;21 – 00;32;22;00
Anika
Like if you look at your profile, you don’t just see a quote underneath the-

00;32;22;05 – 00;32;52;28
Lars Dabney
Yeah, it’s like it used to be right there. But I mean, OK, honestly, I mean, I’m going to disclose something here, I don’t social at all. Like I avoided like the plague. And it’s not that- I just, I just, well, I don’t even avoid it, really. I just kind of stopped. I felt like it was it was not giving me a lot of meaningful interactions with people and I kind of was just like, you know, I, I feel like I’d rather what’s at my family.

00;32;54;06 – 00;33;23;01
Lars Dabney
So, so I haven’t really looked I can’t find it. But let’s see how does the quote start? I can probably do this. I stuff my head. This is a book that is a from a book called Jingo that is a parody of actually a very prescient parody of kind of be like Iraq War. He wrote it in before that happened.

00;33;24;08 – 00;33;43;07
Lars Dabney
He wrote it in the late nineties. So it may have actually been a reference to Desert Storm kind of, but it was kind of about the conflict between the West and Middle East culturally and kind of sending it up and being like, look, this is ridiculous. Like, there’s no reason for us to have that’s like other than like all the moneyed interests behind it.

00;33;44;00 – 00;34;16;21
Lars Dabney
And at the end of that, the patrician of Ankh-Morpork, who’s this incredibly intelligent political figure who’s just constantly kind of behind the scenes, like always knows what’s going on. And he kind of single handedly orchestrates peace when everybody else is so dead set on going to war. And he says, “bought and sold men, marched away commander Byams, and then came back how glorious the battles that they never fought.

00;34;18;05 – 00;34;47;18
Lars Dabney
And you say bought and sold perhaps, but not, I think, needlessly spent.” so I always like that quote. I think it reflects I mean, I think it’s very clever. It’s very clever character. But you know, it’s it’s this question of like geopolitics and the systems around us are always going to be shoving us around. Yeah. You know, the thing what’s happening in the Ukraine right now is like a horrific travesty.

00;34;47;24 – 00;35;23;06
Lars Dabney
The individuals caught up in it are not behind it. You know, they aren’t the cause for it. They are being bought and sold. But there are you know, it is still possible to be a force for insuring for trying to make it such that, like these events are not wasted, you know, that like these lives aren’t lost meaninglessly, that something is made of the tragedy and and that somehow we use that to, like, bend ourselves towards being better.

00;35;23;25 – 00;35;36;08
Anika
So yeah, yeah, we might we could just keep talking probably for hours but I’m going to stop myself for sure.

00;35;36;08 – 00;35;37;29
Lars Dabney
Yeah. No, I definitely could.

00;35;38;07 – 00;35;57;29
Anika
I think that that but that brings up, you know, it just goes back to the work that you’re trying to do every day and that you’re really trying to help change people’s hearts and minds by what they see when they go to one of your client’s websites and how they see that they can show up in the world and how they can make an impact.

00;35;58;12 – 00;35;59;09
Anika
And that’s really beautiful.

00;35;59;09 – 00;36;00;21
Lars Dabney
So yeah. That’s what I’m hoping for.

00;36;01;09 – 00;36;12;16
Anika
Yeah. Thank you for taking some- Well, I guess there’s probably no snow, so I was going to say thanks for not going snowboarding today and taking the time to be interviewed by me instead.

00;36;12;29 – 00;36;15;16
Lars Dabney
Of course, my pleasure. Yes.

00;36;16;06 – 00;36;21;25
Anika
Well, and I would love to put that book in the show notes too, because now I’m like, Oh, now I’m intrigued. I went, Oh.

00;36;21;25 – 00;36;22;21
Lars Dabney
Yeah, yeah.

00;36;22;27 – 00;36;34;02
Lars Dabney
Jingo by Terry Pratchett. It’s great. It’s really funny. It’s really, really clever, really funny. And when you realize it was written before 911, it is so prescient. It’s kind of mind boggling.

00;36;34;15 – 00;36;55;28
Anika
Amazing. Well, thank you for an open, honest, fun, rambling conversation today on Your Brand Amplified. I love talking to you. And I know that our audience will get value out of this and really hopefully come away thinking about how to be authentic and show their values every day in their work. And I guess that we’ll be back again next week! Want more?

00;36;56;06 – 00;37;02;01
Anika
Check out AmplifywithAnnika.com or follow me on socials @AmplifywithAnnika.

00;00;01;05 – 00;00;30;20
Anika
Welcome to Your Brand Amplified the podcast where we interview marketers, publicists and brands to learn their stories, what makes them tick and tips and tricks that make a difference. Welcome to another week of Your Brand Amplified. I’m Anika Jackson and I’m really excited. I’m bringing somebody here. We haven’t had this point of view before from a journalist and writer and publisher of a magazine, so I’m so excited to welcome Lisa K. Stephenson to the show.

00;00;31;11 – 00;00;33;22
Lisa K. Stephenson
Hi. Thank you for having me.

00;00;33;28 – 00;00;52;00
Anika
Absolutely. So before we get into She’s Single magazine and all of your other- everything else you’re doing right now, I’d love for you to give some background information who you are, you know, all the different things that led you to being the author speaker entrepreneur, philanthropist that you are today.

00;00;53;24 – 00;01;17;19
Lisa K. Stephenson
Oh man, so the journey was very interesting. You know, it’s so funny because I know in high school we all take those career tests and I remember I took mine and my occupation, said journalist. And I was so disappointed. Like, I would my first thought as a kid is just like journalists don’t make money. Like, why would I want to be a journalist?

00;01;18;05 – 00;01;38;23
Lisa K. Stephenson
And, you know, fast forward all these years later, I mean, I joined the Army, and while I was there you know, I was I started working on a book, but I never finished it. And then, you know, I was injured. So I was home on convalescent leave. And I finally finished the book. And I’m going to be really honest with you, that book went absolutely nowhere.

00;01;39;07 – 00;02;02;15
Lisa K. Stephenson
Nobody saw it. Nobody read it. I was just like, at least I wrote it, though, you know, I was happy about that. And then, you know, I came home and there were so many things that transpired after that. I was in like, you know, this domestic abuse relationship and I was like, cheated on. It was a lot. And then I decided, you know, I wanted to take that experience and I wanted to write about it.

00;02;02;24 – 00;02;20;27
Lisa K. Stephenson
And then I wrote my second book, which is Covenant, and I just did like three short stories. But I, I pretty much connected all of them through the characters and the last story was pretty much about me. And, you know, at first, again, I just thought, you know, I’m going to publish this. No one’s going to read it.

00;02;20;27 – 00;02;50;27
Lisa K. Stephenson
But at least I got it out. It was like my therapy. And, you know, surprisingly, people read it. People loved it. And next thing I know, you know, I thought, well, I should get a publicist and I did get one. And then I started touring the book, and then my fanbase just, like, really grew. And I was just like, you know, it’s funny, At some point, I felt very insecure and I felt very, like, embarrassed about some of the decisions that I made while I was in that relationship.

00;02;51;10 – 00;03;10;08
Lisa K. Stephenson
But then I met some amazing, incredible women who they to, you know, make bad decisions. And, you know, ultimately, they want to be judged Yeah. You don’t want to be judged, it’s just like, oh, my God, love can be so scary. And I didn’t judge them because hello, I was one.

00;03;10;09 – 00;03;10;18
Anika
(laugh)

00;03;12;17 – 00;03;23;11
Lisa K. Stephenson
And, you know, from there, you know, more people started connecting. And then, you know, I was working nine to five. I lost my job. And then I just thought, OK, let’s just do the magazine and here we are today.

00;03;23;15 – 00;03;48;00
Anika
Amazing! That’s so funny. I think when I was in high school, I wanted to be a writer but that’s kind of same thing. It’s like it takes a lot of time and investment to sit down and the whole creative process. Right. And for any creative. And it’s funny, when you were talking about your first book, I was like, you needed a publicist because I think that’s a lot of things.

00;03;48;00 – 00;03;51;15
Anika
People write stuff and then but if they don’t market it. Right.

00;03;51;23 – 00;03;52;06
Lisa K. Stephenson
Right.

00;03;53;02 – 00;04;05;27
Anika
It doesn’t go anywhere. But you can build a beautiful website, but if you don’t tell people about it, it doesn’t go anywhere. So this brought you to this amazing place you are today. Talk about your magazine.

00;04;06;16 – 00;04;28;04
Lisa K. Stephenson
Sure. So funny. Story. I was working at a law firm and I hated my job. And I was I was a lead paralegal there. And, you know, I was I did I love the fact that I could get up and go to work, but I hate the fact that I had to do a nine to five. Like, I didn’t like obligation that came with it.

00;04;29;11 – 00;04;46;29
Lisa K. Stephenson
So, you know, I got fired and I wasn’t sad. You know, I was just like, well, thank God, you know, now my books because at the time, you know, Covenant was doing really well. And then I ended up publishing about four books after that. I think in one summer, I wrote three books.

00;04;47;00 – 00;04;47;24
Anika
Oh, my gosh.

00;04;48;09 – 00;05;09;08
Lisa K. Stephenson
Yeah. So it was very interesting. And then my publicist loved me because I just kept pumping them out, you know? So I ended up, you know, home and I was watching the Hugh Hefner documentary. Funny Hugh Hefner. Why did you like that idea? And I was watching the documentary, and I kept thinking, well, you know, books are great.

00;05;09;16 – 00;05;29;10
Lisa K. Stephenson
But I feel like when it comes to talking about relationships and giving relationship advice, it’s even better when there’s like when it when it can be visually appealing You know, so I decided, well, maybe a magazine will be a good thing because we can add visuals to the text and, you know, we can really get people invested. You know, to want to really take their place.

00;05;30;13 – 00;05;38;11
Lisa K. Stephenson
And so, yeah, I what I did was I did like a mock-up cover at first. And then I just started throwing them in Facebook groups to like, you know, get people review.

00;05;38;11 – 00;05;38;28
Anika
Oh yeah?

00;05;39;25 – 00;05;49;16
Lisa K. Stephenson
And people were commenting. They’re like, oh, where can I read this? And where do I download this? And I was like, OK, it’s time for me to make this magazine. People are interested.

00;05;49;28 – 00;06;07;12
Anika
Yeah, well, you took your personal experience, right? All these things, all these lived experiences that you had and thought like, what do I want to see in the world? What’s missing? And you created that for us other women out there who have been in these situations need advice, need a community to get together.

00;06;08;05 – 00;06;29;02
Lisa K. Stephenson
Exactly. Exactly. So we’re doing that now. You know, ultimately the goal is to we want to empower all women. You know, we’re not just speaking to a specific demographic or a specific age group. We have articles for women who are 40 and over. We have articles for the Gen Z, for the millennials we have advice. We speak with financial coaches.

00;06;29;08 – 00;06;39;08
Lisa K. Stephenson
We try to educate people as well, you know, not just with relationships, but just with life overall. Yeah, there’s things that, you know, we don’t learn in school. You know, we don’t.

00;06;39;08 – 00;06;39;27
Anika
Like so many.

00;06;40;13 – 00;07;00;19
Lisa K. Stephenson
Yeah. You know, we don’t learn about credit. We don’t learn about businesses. We don’t learn about the different structures of businesses and how it necessarily works. So these are things that we do teach. And, you know, we’re not asking, you know, our audience for anything, you know, if they want to subscribe to the publication, they can. However, we don’t put them on any type of retainer.

00;07;00;24 – 00;07;19;20
Lisa K. Stephenson
You know, they’re paying monthly. It’s literally buy as you go. So you want this on this month’s issue. Go ahead. You can grab that. You know, you’re not in any commitment. So of course, you know, we want our we want our readers to feel free and we want our readers to be able to quickly connect with individuals who can assist them.

00;07;20;00 – 00;07;41;01
Lisa K. Stephenson
And we do have people that write in almost every single day asking for relationship advice. So you know, some of the coaches that we have affiliated with our brand, we’ll just link them directly. And it’s a way for us to, you know, put client and customer together client and coach together on site. And it’s very feasible. It’s quick and, you know, people love it.

00;07;41;11 – 00;07;46;24
Anika
Mm hmm. And you are printing and digital, right? Print and digital.

00;07;47;08 – 00;07;47;25
Lisa K. Stephenson
Yes.

00;07;47;25 – 00;07;57;10
Anika
Which is fantastic. I think so many things are just digital nowadays, but it’s actually really nice to get a magazine I want to read in the mail.

00;07;57;19 – 00;07;58;05
Lisa K. Stephenson
Yeah.

00;07;58;11 – 00;07;59;13
Anika
Or at- you know-

00;08;00;13 – 00;08;22;08
Lisa K. Stephenson
I agree. And honestly, the journey towards getting this into a print edition, it was not easy because, you know, I have so much respect for the other magazines that came before us and that are still you know, going strong and are still doing their thing because, you know, the economy’s change, you know, people want things, you know, quickly.

00;08;22;08 – 00;08;41;21
Lisa K. Stephenson
And then, you know, you have all these blogs that is able to beat you to the punch, so to speak. So, you know, we kind of had to structure our brand a little bit differently where, you know, we’re appealing to people who are asking direct questions, saying if they’re asking specifically, well, how do I get over this or what do I do when this happens?

00;08;42;04 – 00;08;49;19
Lisa K. Stephenson
You know, we kind of want to make sure that we’re giving them that me-to-you conversation and. Yeah, it works. It works.

00;08;50;06 – 00;09;04;22
Anika
Well. What would you say is the hardest thing about starting a magazine, being the publisher, writing to having, you know, sales like all the different hats and jobs there are when it comes to your business.

00;09;06;00 – 00;09;34;13
Lisa K. Stephenson
Yeah. So I was actually blessed. I did start out with a good team and then eventually so initially I started off with about four employees and about nine interns. Right. And then everyone was so excited to write for the publication and it was great. And then it got to a point where I didn’t even need to write anymore, you know, and literally like a year we managed to pump out about 500 blogs.

00;09;34;17 – 00;10;07;11
Lisa K. Stephenson
So now we have about 500 blogs. Yeah. And, you know, we’re averaging now close to 458,000 views a month, and that was in a year. So I’m only looking forward to going forward from here, but it’s definitely not the easiest thing. And I want to say sales primarily because, you know, we live in a time where when you’re trying to develop a B2B company, you have to pretty much show, you know, your business how they are going to benefit.

00;10;07;20 – 00;10;32;07
Lisa K. Stephenson
And me being and being a writer and having books and being an author anywhere prior, I know the importance of marketing and having the right audience, you know, otherwise you’re just burning money. So I had to do a lot of research, I had to do my due diligence, I had to learn that, you know, what makes my business different from Google, what makes my business different from Facebook?

00;10;32;15 – 00;10;52;06
Lisa K. Stephenson
And one of the things that sets us apart is, you know, even when you’re going with Google, there’s no one to speak to. Yeah. You know, they create this platform and they say, go in, create your own ads. We don’t care if you’re a newbie. If you’ve never done this before, go in. And if you can’t do it, sure, you know, someone will pick up the phone and help you.

00;10;52;25 – 00;11;25;09
Lisa K. Stephenson
And I think that’s so bad. So what we do is we make sure that each of our clients have their own account executive and handles their portfolio and actually goes over the numbers with them. So, you know, if we if they’re doing like a digital ad or if they’re doing an ad, you know, in our blogs or in the publication, we’re able to say, well, this is how many were printed, this is how many clicks you got from our digital platform is how many people, you know, read this particular blogs or this for me, impressions you did get.

00;11;25;17 – 00;11;48;03
Lisa K. Stephenson
So we’re able to break that down. And to be honest, like people love that, you know, they love that that feeling of you care, you know, and we do care. We want their repeated business. We want people to trust us. We want people to understand that, you know, we know the importance of our ROI. Yeah. And, you know, and not just, you know, having the publication, but I’m also a publicist.

00;11;48;09 – 00;12;25;21
Lisa K. Stephenson
So I do have clients that I work with as well. So my job for them is to get them organic traffic and also to do my due diligence to figure out where is the best place to get their brand in order to reach their audience in order for them to get conversion. So, you know, it does have its challenges, but as in on as in as an entrepreneur, I’m sorry, it’s my job to do my due diligence and really dove in so that I have the knowledge that I can share with a potential individual, you know, just them being able to see that I put the work in.

00;12;26;06 – 00;12;50;00
Lisa K. Stephenson
It also helps to increase trust. And we do get a lot of clients that way. So we’re blessed now. You know, we have about 52 PR clients. We have a very healthy advertising portfolio and we have some of our advertisers who become PR clients because they like the results that they got from the advertising. And then we have people who want to be a part of our events.

00;12;50;08 – 00;12;54;28
Lisa K. Stephenson
So it’s kind of like, you know, they just stay with us and they keep they keep things going.

00;12;55;11 – 00;13;18;00
Anika
That’s the way to do it, you know, and I think that’s a good point is I’m hearing you talk about authenticity of messaging, knowing who your audience is and what where they are, what they’re reading, right? You want to be where they are and then also the ROI. It’s so important in business to know that you’re able to do that and you’re actually able to show, OK, this really delivered for you.

00;13;18;00 – 00;13;42;09
Anika
And here’s how and that’s something I don’t think everybody does when they’re putting together a magazine or trying to sell ads. You know, it’s just another sale for them. It’s not intentional as what you’re putting into it. And so that’s one side of things that I think a lot of our audience will be really interested in. And the other side is, how do you take submissions now?

00;13;42;09 – 00;14;04;21
Anika
I know personally, like as a publicist, I have, you know, sent you press releases or pitches or my team has kind of culled. But then I know sometimes people like that, sometimes people don’t. And so you said you talk about everything that would affect a woman’s life, not just, you know, the one, but not just the relationship piece, which is important piece, but like everything else.

00;14;05;00 – 00;14;21;15
Anika
And so do you have, you know, an editorial calendar that you like to work off of? So, OK, we’re going to cover this this business month. Let’s find that content and search for it. Or do you just get enough inbound requests from publicists and people that you’re like, OK, our job is done on this side.

00;14;21;15 – 00;14;45;17
Lisa K. Stephenson
We go so I do believe in structure. I’m very, very organized. I’m very I want to say that I have a really good attention to detail. If sometimes, you know, someone will do something and you know they’ll fix it really quick before it gets to my desk. And the thing is, I they’ll say, well, I knew you were going to see it.

00;14;45;17 – 00;15;05;12
Lisa K. Stephenson
So I just wanted to fix it really quick. And I’m sorry it’s late. And I’m like, OK, good, because, you know, but yeah, I do have an editorial calendar. A lot of times I get pitches mainly Tuesdays and Thursdays, and then we’ll get some things that trickle in other days. But what I like to do, what I’m getting pitches.

00;15;05;12 – 00;15;22;09
Lisa K. Stephenson
I don’t mind them at all. I don’t mind any amount of pitches. Right. But if usually if I you know, if I get an email maybe more than twice and I’m not interested in the content, I will let the publicists know, you know, if they have something else they can share with me. But I’m not interested in that particular content.

00;15;22;09 – 00;15;47;17
Lisa K. Stephenson
So I do try to get back to people. Sometimes I can’t, but I do try because again, I’m a publicist as well. And I do I’m on both sides you definitely want to give the same courtesy that I would hope that someone would give to me. Yeah. As far as, you know, what we get in I like to have different ideas and I have someone specifically to work on specific things.

00;15;47;25 – 00;16;11;00
Lisa K. Stephenson
So, you know, I have a journalist that covers relationships. I have a journalist that covers cultural events or trending topics, things like that. So depending on the email that I’ll get in, I may, you know, skim in. I’ll see, OK, what’s this person that I’m being told about? What can they cover? Are they a financial expert? Are they a sex expert?

00;16;11;00 – 00;16;27;18
Lisa K. Stephenson
You know, where exactly do they fall? And then depending on that, I’ll just forward the email to my editorial assistants. And depending on where that where we are in the editorial calendar, they’ll be the ones to contact those publicists and say, oh, you know, I know you sent this to my editor. This is what we’re working on this month.

00;16;27;23 – 00;16;55;01
Lisa K. Stephenson
Do you mind sending over some more information or can we schedule an interview? Yeah, it’s very seldom. I’ll put my hands in like I respond to an email and set up an interview. I generally speaking, to be quite honest with you, I don’t like doing interviews. I do some, I do make exceptions, but as far as like interviewing for the magazine and things like that, I don’t do that

00;16;55;01 – 00;17;04;20
Anika
you’re a little busy. I mean, you know, magazine. 52 PR clients. I mean, that that is a lot of work.

00;17;06;12 – 00;17;26;13
Lisa K. Stephenson
I try to just, you know, delegate as much as possible and, you know, and everyone loves it because it makes them feel needed and makes them feel wanted. It makes them feel respected, you know? And I do I’m not one of those managers who micromanage. I like to do a full training, get the training wheels off and you know, go on your way.

00;17;27;09 – 00;17;34;18
Lisa K. Stephenson
I like to just double check, oversee things. But other than that, you know, we have a smooth sailing ship here.

00;17;34;18 – 00;17;42;08
Anika
I love that. So what is next for you? Do you have any more books coming out? You’re going to, you know, have some expansion plans?

00;17;42;08 – 00;18;06;26
Lisa K. Stephenson
So I did sign a deal with Simon and Schuster for my self-help book. So publishing that and like 2024. So I’ve been like holding off, but I do have that in the works. It’s called Love Smart Love Independently. So that would be my first self-help book. And I also am executive producer to a reality TV show called

00;18;06;26 – 00;18;29;16
Lisa K. Stephenson
She’s single in New York. So I do have that. And we also have our own streaming platform. So we have original content. So we did start with that show and I also have a scripted series that I’m going into production with in the summer and then the magazine, you know, the magazine is doing its thing. You know, again, I have an amazing team.

00;18;29;16 – 00;18;51;21
Lisa K. Stephenson
You know, I, I started out with a very small team and then it kind of just expanded itself. And one thing that I’m super grateful for is the loyalty of my staff. Yeah. You know, we’ve been through some things and, you know, as the, the economy changes, things change, you know, especially the individuals who are in sales because they’re mostly commissioned with like a base salary.

00;18;51;21 – 00;19;03;23
Lisa K. Stephenson
So sometimes it gets a little discouraging, you know, when the economy is down. But they stuck it out. We stuck it out. And, you know, we’re continuing to, you know, steady, take slow but steady.

00;19;03;28 – 00;19;10;05
Anika
Yeah. Well, that speaks a lot to who you are. I mean, you know, people want to stick with you because you’re doing right by them.

00;19;10;23 – 00;19;13;20
Lisa K. Stephenson
Yeah. It’s important. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;19;14;04 – 00;19;20;02
Anika
I you’re well. Wow, you are busy. Do you have time for self-care?

00;19;20;02 – 00;19;32;20
Lisa K. Stephenson
Sleep oh, man. I’m going to be really honest. Like I be. I know I did my hair like two days ago, and I haven’t done my hair in, like, a month and a half.

00;19;33;14 – 00;19;36;05
Anika
I don’t even my roots right now, like, I’m like.

00;19;37;28 – 00;19;53;13
Lisa K. Stephenson
Maybe I can’t. I comb my hair up and I haven’t, like, let it down all the way, but I was just like, I looked in the mirror the other day and I was like, girl, it just feels nice to take care of yourself every once in a while.

00;19;53;21 – 00;20;02;05
Anika
Yeah. And, you know, I’m I’m trying to get better about that, too. Like, you can’t that adage, right? You can’t put somebody else’s you put your own oxygen mask on first.

00;20;02;12 – 00;20;03;05
Lisa K. Stephenson
Mhm.

00;20;03;08 – 00;20;19;28
Anika
And we forget that when we’re working entrepreneur hours you’re in the grind, you’re, you know, you have all these different moving parts. Yeah. But then I just started doing that. I’m like, OK, I can make an appointment for my hair, I’m going to make an appointment for nails, I’m going to do, you know, my eyelashes like all those little things yet.

00;20;20;08 – 00;20;27;25
Anika
And I’m like, I should be doing this because this makes me feel good. And then I think it makes me feel better and more relaxed I have everything else you have.

00;20;28;06 – 00;20;45;21
Lisa K. Stephenson
I agree. You know, what I’ve learned too is like, you know, we should be celebrating small steps. You know, I realize that even though my client, my my staff, they have quotas that they would have to meet, like, at the end of the month, you know, if they don’t meet the quotas, I don’t beat them over the head.

00;20;45;25 – 00;21;08;08
Lisa K. Stephenson
I, I prefer that, you know, they’ve made X amount of calls and even if they’ve closed a certain amount of accounts, but they’ve made, you know, a great deal of effort I think that’s worth celebrating, you know, so I try to have these staff meetings where, like, we’re having so many discussions and, you know, our staff, they love it, you know, and outside of that, I try to do it at home as well.

00;21;08;08 – 00;21;19;11
Lisa K. Stephenson
Now I have a little puppy, and she just she gets so angry with me now. Like when I’m at work, she’s like barking at me or she’s tapping me.

00;21;19;12 – 00;21;20;07
Anika
Oh.

00;21;21;09 – 00;21;36;05
Lisa K. Stephenson
I’m not upset with it. I think that that’s just her way of asking me to take time for her as well and just make time for me, too. So I implement it in the office. I’m implementing it at home. Small steps. Can’t sweat the small stuff.

00;21;36;05 – 00;21;42;10
Anika
Exactly. Yeah. Every little change, every little step forward is a victory.

00;21;42;22 – 00;21;46;01
Lisa K. Stephenson
Yes, exactly. One step closer to a goal.

00;21;46;06 – 00;22;05;05
Anika
Yeah. So now you have your book. Are your books also on your website for your magazine or is that separate? Like, how do people find? Because now I want to go read all your books. Yeah, I already read the magazine. I’m going to subscribe now. I want to read the books, too. So how does somebody find each part of that?

00;22;06;00 – 00;22;38;11
Lisa K. Stephenson
Oh, so I do have an Amazon author page. I used to have my own separate website for myself and my books and my speaking agents, and then I did take it down. I wanted to solely focus on the PR and the magazine. I felt like adding anything else to that would have been rich but right now my books are totally on Amazon and we do affiliate marketing with Amazon, so we’re able to have affiliate marketing where we put the books in the boxes as well, and people can, you know, purchase the books through there.

00;22;38;15 – 00;22;47;15
Lisa K. Stephenson
Yeah, well, yeah, it kind of just works out. So I didn’t really have to have a whole separate website so yeah, I would just get them off Amazon for now.

00;22;48;02 – 00;22;55;08
Anika
Very cool. And then for your magazine, go to the website on social all the same.

00;22;55;20 – 00;23;21;11
Lisa K. Stephenson
Yes. So Shessinglemag.com is for the magazine. I mean, you can also see snippets of the show we do digital advertising as well. So our advertising is both in the publication and online. It’s good in my experience for potential customers and individuals to see, you know, an ad more than once in order for them to gain trust and most likely click and things like that.

00;23;21;11 – 00;23;48;11
Lisa K. Stephenson
So that’s another thing we do with our clients. Anyone who’s in the publication, they’re also in print, digital, and on the website, they’re wonderful. You know, our readers get to see them everywhere. Right? Yeah. So the show is on there, blogs are on there. Our blogs are amazing if I do say so myself. You know, I love them. I’m always like sharing them with my friends too, because I’m just like, Look what my assistant wrote today.

00;23;49;01 – 00;24;13;02
Lisa K. Stephenson
Yeah, it was great. And I love the fact that, you know, our writers, they do very in-depth research, you know, so even though we’re not medical professionals, which we do, you know, include a little blurb at the bottom, if the advice contains anything medical and we do let them know that we’re not medical professionals. But this information was thoroughly researched and we do speak with professionals.

00;24;13;10 – 00;24;23;28
Lisa K. Stephenson
And one of the good things about it, too, is, you know, we do utilize places like Harrow, which has been amazing, you know, in finding professionals to comment on things. Yeah.

00;24;24;16 – 00;24;24;25
Anika
Wonderful.

00;24;27;13 – 00;24;32;19
Anika
Do you have a favorite quote that you like to live by or share with people?

00;24;33;06 – 00;24;37;10
Lisa K. Stephenson
We do one thing every day that makes you happy.

00;24;37;14 – 00;24;38;25
Anika
Oh, I like that.

00;24;39;02 – 00;25;07;01
Lisa K. Stephenson
Yeah, that’s the one. And I also have it hanging in my apartment, too. And I think that for a long time, I I wasn’t doing what made me happy, especially after, like, my relationship ended and it took it. It was so traumatic, that experience. Like, I was in therapy for like two years. And I remember, you know, just trying to remind myself that I’m young, you know, I have my life ahead of me.

00;25;07;01 – 00;25;29;17
Lisa K. Stephenson
I am ambitious. I work hard and, you know, I should be doing things that make me happy. And that was another thing when I was working at the law firm, and I was just like so annoyed because I’m like, I don’t want to go here anymore. And then eventually, you know, like I said, when I got fired, I wasn’t sad at all.

00;25;29;17 – 00;25;39;22
Lisa K. Stephenson
I was just like, OK, now I can do something that makes me happy. And you believe it or not, you know? Right. Working on the magazine makes me happy.

00;25;40;17 – 00;25;42;22
Anika
Now you exude the happiness from it.

00;25;43;03 – 00;26;03;18
Lisa K. Stephenson
Yeah. Just, you know, working on the show makes me happy because, you know, when we’re filming, you know, it’s like family, you know, the cameramen, the producers, we’re literally like a big family with them. For, like, 2 hours. And then in a restaurant, they’ll, you know, they accomplished some food or something like that just for filming there. So we end up having dinner after.

00;26;03;18 – 00;26;17;23
Lisa K. Stephenson
It’s just nice. It’s a nice experience. I’m free, I’m happy, and I wish that for everyone. Yeah, I. I definitely wish freedom and to just be able to do what you love every day. I do wish that.

00;26;18;14 – 00;26;41;13
Anika
I think that’s a perfect place to end this episode because you are clearly doing what you love, and it shows not just in your happiness and what you’re exuding, but the success that you’re having with it, with all with all of the different things that you’re doing. Because I don’t believe that you would be having that success unless it was something that you really, you know, authentically felt inside that.

00;26;41;13 – 00;26;59;06
Anika
And that made you happy to show up. And obviously all of the people who work with you, it makes them happy to show up to work today, you know, every day also. So you can’t ask for better than that. Well, I really appreciate you coming on today and sharing your story and sharing some of the tips that we know about.

00;26;59;06 – 00;27;20;26
Anika
Actually, you know what, when you’re looking at advertising some of the things that you brought up, does the magazine or does the publication or wherever you’re going to advertise provide ROI? What kind of ROI, you know, are they sharing with you? The click through and and the impacts that you’re actually making and, you know, are they working with you to be a partner and a solution, not just somebody who’s like taking your money.

00;27;22;06 – 00;27;41;11
Anika
And then on the other side, you mentioned Harrow Health, a reporter out. That is I actually interviewed the guy who found that a few episodes back originally. And. Yeah, but that is a great resource for anybody who’s new to PR and just wants to learn, like what kind of things are any questions people are looking to get answered.

00;27;42;01 – 00;27;51;25
Anika
And that can help you know, formulate PR plans, too. So Lisa, thank you so much for spending some time with me today. I really appreciate it. And-

00;27;52;15 – 00;27;52;24
Lisa K. Stephenson
Thank you for having me.

00;27;53;20 – 00;28;14;23
Anika
Of course, and I am like super excited. And I didn’t even say to our audience, like this whole thing came out of we’d sent you a pitch. You responded Oh, I included this quote. And I was like, I want to interview you. I mean, I know your publication for a while, so I’m really happy and excited that you could join us and well, you know, provide some great information.

00;28;14;23 – 00;28;35;18
Anika
And I will provide some information on your platforms and your author page in the show notes. Yeah. And an audience. Thanks for coming back for another week. And we’ll be back next week with another episode of Your Brand Amplified. Want more? Check out AmplifywithAnika.com or follow me on socials @AmplifywithAnika.

00;00;01;05 – 00;00;21;27
Anika
Welcome to Your Brand Amplified the podcast where we interview marketers, publicists and brands to learn their stories, what makes them tick and tips and tricks that make a difference. I am back for another episode of Your Brand Amplified as your host, Anika Jackson, and I am here with Marco Torres of Marketing Boost. Hi, Marco.

00;00;22;09 – 00;00;24;09
Marco Torres
Hi, Anika. Pleasure to be here.

00;00;24;20 – 00;00;43;28
Anika
Our pleasure to have you here. It’s a honestly- So we’re recording on a Friday. It’s a great way to start the weekend. I love talking to people who are helping entrepreneurs and who have, you know, different ways to connect in sales and marketing. So before we get into Marketing Boost, I’d love for you to share your journey with our audience.

00;00;44;11 – 00;01;11;00
Marco Torres
OK. Well, I’ve been an entrepreneur for a very long time. I’m no spring chicken, so I started actually a paper route at age nine, and by the time I was 12 was featured on the front page with the largest paper out in my area, San Juan, Puerto Rico, where I grew up. Then I went on to open restaurants when I got out of high school, didn’t want to go to college so I got together with my older brother, my mom.

00;01;11;00 – 00;01;32;23
Marco Torres
We opened five restaurants in five years. Wow. We sold those to Taco Bell when they hit the island of Puerto Rico. So that that turned out to be a good exit plan. We had a nightclub as well by the time I was 23. So I had a fun up growing in San Juan in the, in the business world.

00;01;33;06 – 00;01;58;01
Marco Torres
Moved to Florida, got into the travel industry, and I’ve been there pretty much ever since. So I’ve been in the online space, and then I got into the Internet marketing world in the mid-nineties very early on, when as an early adopter of email marketing, I was, you know, spamming before they called it spam. I was doing 100 million emails a month before.

00;01;58;12 – 00;01;59;04
Anika
Oh my gosh.

00;01;59;14 – 00;02;30;10
Marco Torres
Out of servers all over my garage. So it was pretty heavy duty but but yeah. So eventually we launched what became Marketingboost.com today, which is a travel incentive subscription service where we allow, we help business owners around the world enhance their calls to action, enhance their product line, their sales offers, by adding value with a travel incentive versus discounting, for example.

00;02;30;15 – 00;02;30;26
Marco Torres
Mm hmm.

00;02;31;27 – 00;02;51;29
Anika
Yeah. So that’s so interesting. I connect with you on a lot of these points. I got my start promoting nightclubs and DJs when I was still in high school. I was also in the early days of the Internet going into music chat rooms to find promoters across the country for a magazine that I worked for. That was a music magazine.

00;02;52;12 – 00;03;18;16
Anika
So I think when you’re an entrepreneur and you have that spirit, it bubbles up early, right? With your paper route. You didn’t even know that word entrepreneur probably. But, you know, it was just instilled in you. It’s ingrained in you, this drive to be creative and find innovative things to do that fit your lifestyle, that fit your interests, but would still help you have a business, make money, have a livelihood and then, you know, move on to the next thing.

00;03;18;25 – 00;03;40;01
Marco Torres
Yeah. You know, another thing I’ve always done in my career, I’ve always leveraged my network. I’ve always leveraged the people around me. Like, even I didn’t know I was doing this as a kid, but I had I got I recruited my buddies to help me deliver the papers and I focused on what I was good at, which was knocking on doors and selling the subscriptions.

00;03;40;13 – 00;04;01;29
Marco Torres
And then in those days, we had to go back and knock on the doors and collect the money, too. So I would focus on sales and collections, and I had my buddies helping me do all the deliveries. And so it was like a turn. And then my dad would actually help me manage the manage the books because it got like, oh, that’s, you know, between who owes me money and everything else.

00;04;02;10 – 00;04;28;16
Marco Torres
My dad was teaching me how to, you know, organize a spreadsheet back then, you know, like, I don’t know, notebooks united, but basically being able to figure out, you keep track of who still owes me money, who, you know, and it was a little business. It was fun. And from there I just kept on going. But later on, I leveraged, like I said, my mother, my brother. Well, later on in life, I leveraged friends of mine that we launched a travel business together with buddies of mine that I had been in business with.

00;04;28;25 – 00;04;53;00
Marco Torres
None of us could have hired each other because we were all too top level, you know, top earners. So we would have never been able to hire the level of talent that we each brought to the table. But because we were, you know, we decided to come in together as a team, you know, one of us focused on sales and marketing and sales, the other one on marketing, the other one on resort relationships and contract the other one on finance issues or what have you.

00;04;53;00 – 00;05;19;19
Marco Torres
And and together we built, you know, a machine now for over 12 years. And that’s hard to do. You know, we have partnerships, but I find it easier than it is to try to do everything on your, you know, on your own. Being a one man team is very limiting you know, so I either coach my, my clients either build a team, you know, where you hire people smarter than you or, you know, leverage relationships and have partnerships and so on.

00;05;19;27 – 00;05;36;25
Anika
Yeah, well, I think those are two important points. One is looking at who is in your circle and making sure you’re surrounded by the right people, right. People that you would want to go into business with because I think working with friends can be very hard. I’ve tried it before. I’ve tried hiring friends. Sometimes it’s worked, sometimes it hasn’t.

00;05;37;05 – 00;05;48;16
Anika
And I think the key point, though, is making sure that if you’re hiring somebody who has a skill set that you don’t have, make sure that they know a lot more, that they are like able to pull their weight in that area.

00;05;49;01 – 00;06;09;27
Marco Torres
Well, that that’s yeah, that’s a good point. They weren’t just friends that we got together with. Yeah, sure. They were business associates that we all knew were super talented. So in other words, we did business together first, then we became friends. And then we eventually, eventually, you know, launched our own business together. But yeah, they’re just buddies.

00;06;10;13 – 00;06;13;19
Marco Torres
Right? Right. I was just my friend that never would have worked.

00;06;15;13 – 00;06;37;14
Anika
So I love that your business talks about incentive based marketing. And so instead of offering discounts to bring people in the door and starting from a deficit, you’re actually giving them something else to offer. So what are some of the businesses that have been most successful using your methods and using travel and other incentives?

00;06;37;25 – 00;07;09;24
Marco Torres
Cool. Yeah, let me kind of get into some success story or some examples. But first, let me kind of explain what marketing boost is is we provide, for example, one of our top incentives is complimentary hotel stays in over 125 destinations around the world. So we provide, you know, the business owner who’s a member of marketing because the ability to give away complimentary trips from three nights to five nights to seven nights in places like Phuket, Thailand for seven nights, Bali for four nights, Hawaii for five nights.

00;07;10;03 – 00;07;40;25
Marco Torres
Right now we’ve got some amazing properties in Cancun, Mexico for five nights, Las Vegas, Orlando, the San Diego Branson, Missouri, 30 destinations in the US and literally 125 really, you know, tourism, you know, top tourist destinations around the world. Then we have a hotel savings card with savings vouchers or cash credits from 100, 200, 300 or $500 in hotel savings compared to the “Expedias” of the world.

00;07;40;25 – 00;08;11;23
Marco Torres
So it doesn’t give somebody a free room, but it takes from it works like a gift card, but it takes from ten to 50% off of the what would normally be the retail rate like Expedia or what have you. And then we have restaurant savings vouchers that are good in the US and Canada that provide that, you know, buy one get one 25% off the whole check 10% off of this is a hundred thousand different offers from restaurants and other businesses literally all over the U.S. and Canada so those are the three main sorts of incentives that we offer.

00;08;12;03 – 00;08;51;10
Marco Torres
And how do our business owners use marketing to use them? For example, I had one guy that made almost $500,000 in four days by he had started his business in January of 2021. It was a business, a subscription model to people to pay him $97 a month, all built on the new platform Telegram and he had his members pay him $97 a month to get access to his team that he added of an analytical guys that would come up with when to buy when to sell stocks when they sell, you know crypto when to buy crypto, all that stuff and people were making money on his tips or what have you and gladly paying him $97 a month.

00;08;51;18 – 00;09;07;10
Marco Torres
Well then he came in and offered a marketing boost incentive and saying look if you if you pay in advance for six months, if you become a bi annual member, I’ll give you four days and three nights in your choice of Las Vegas or Orlando. If you pay, if you join and pay for a year in advance become an annual member.

00;09;07;17 – 00;09;30;23
Marco Torres
And I forget what he called it, you know, platinum member or whatever, you become an annual member and we’ll pay and we’ll give you a complimentary trip of five nights. And your choice of Cancun or Hawaii. Well, he had hundreds of people step up and pay in advance. So now he had hundreds of people paying them, you know, over $1,000 for the annual membership or, you know, 700 for the- six to 700 for the for the for the bi monthly.

00;09;31;01 – 00;10;14;25
Marco Torres
And he generated literally almost $500,000 in four days. Now, that became part of his ongoing process. I’ve got a wedding photographer that we just had a conversation with the other day. It is he does wedding photography and videography for clients all over the country and he focuses on the sales and marketing but he has been discounting his price dramatically to compete with competitors and instead when he found Marketing Boost you know what I can I can include for example the Cancun Mexico trip as the honeymoon and now he can hold his price and still be a little bit cheaper than his competitors but you know he was getting about 2500 when his

00;10;14;25 – 00;10;53;07
Marco Torres
competitors get $5,000 for the video for the photography and the video and all of the parts of that that come with it you know all of the editing and so on so now when he includes the complimentary hotels day that’s worth another you know 1500 dollars retail value he’s getting nearly 4500 now and holding his price and it’s still cheaper than his competitors but making a huge amount more profit now because the complimentary trip with the way it works with marketing booths you can as a as a subscriber you can give away these things unlimited and you only pay a subscription model of as little as $37 a month.

00;10;53;07 – 00;11;14;24
Marco Torres
So it’s an amazing customer draw card that can be used in nearly every niche or industry. You don’t have to be in the travel business to use these. Your customer who receives the complimentary trips, sorry to keep on rambling in advance. I’m trying to get a lot of information in for your clients. Typically one of the first things that comes to mind or people is it sounds too good to be true, what’s the catch?

00;11;14;24 – 00;11;26;12
Anika
I was, I was just going to ask what is the catch? Does somebody have to listen to a marketing spiel when they get to the property, you know, what’s the thing that would keep somebody from doing this?

00;11;26;23 – 00;11;49;23
Marco Torres
Yeah, that’s the best question that the first question almost everybody has to I have to do one of those types of things. And the answer is absolutely not. There’s no timeshare present days or any other kind of sales previews required. There is no hoops to jump through it’s a, are- When we got in this business, we decided we wanted to totally revolutionize the industry because we are competitors.

00;11;49;23 – 00;12;12;02
Marco Torres
With that, we’re not the first to get involved to be in the travel incentive business. There’s plenty of been around for decades, but all of our competitors really the purpose, the design of these incentives are designed to almost impossible to use. They want you to give them, you know, 45 days of advance notice travel dates. They want you to give them select two dates, 90 days apart, all kinds of, you know, hoops to jump through.

00;12;12;09 – 00;12;38;13
Marco Torres
We make it easy. You’ve got in some destinations like Cancun right now, we offer as little as 14 days advance notice so they can log in after they activate the certificate, they can log into website, they search the dates, they want to travel. If the hotels are available, they can see which hotels they can select, the hotel they can book and get instant gratification, instant confirmation, no phone calls to make, no hoops to jump through, no waiting for an email back from the travel agent or whatever.

00;12;38;22 – 00;12;57;22
Marco Torres
It’s just like booking on Expedia, except that there is going to be limited- there’s, you know, we have a few hotels per destination that are participants in this program. There are some let’s see what else here. What I would, I would say. So again, we make it easy to use. The client doesn’t have to decide, doesn’t have to know when they want to travel.

00;12;57;22 – 00;13;22;06
Marco Torres
So they activated and they have 18 months to select travel dates. And of course airfare is not included, food and beverage is not included, and the government taxes are not included. The government is always going to have their hand out in every country around the world here. So yeah, so the we the activation fee that we have covers the VAT or taxes for that hotel room based on the retail price.

00;13;22;14 – 00;13;47;29
Marco Torres
So the activation fee is typically around $30-$35 per night. And then the client is, you know, paying their own way to the hotel and they’ve got the free rooms stay and, but they’re, you know, they are paying their own way there, and thier taxes. Now why does this work? I can tell you really quickly, the, the hotel industry we found out because we’ve been in the travel business, we have a huge travel site, one of the fastest growing in North America.

00;13;48;12 – 00;14;23;10
Marco Torres
And it’s called bookvip.com. And anyway, with that and those relationships, we found that those hotels are never full year round, even the best ones. They’re full in peak season. They’re full in special holidays weekend, but they have a lot of room available, you know, 70% of the year. So we we help them put warm bodies in those rooms and convince these hotels to participate with us where we put warm bodies in their rooms that are going to spend money at the restaurants, the bars, the know, the spa, the, you know, the gift shop, et cetera.

00;14;23;15 – 00;14;47;20
Marco Torres
And rather than having the room go empty, they still have the same fixed cost they’ve got mortgage paid. I got that’s that, you know, cleaning staff. So the only additional staff is the maid service because they’re going to have that expense regardless of room goes in. So some warm bodies in there, they generate some revenue versus zero. So it’s a win for the resort or a win for your client that gets the free trip and a win for the marketing booth member who’s has this program.

00;14;49;02 – 00;15;12;05
Anika
Wonderful. I think it’s I’ve seen I’ve seen this kind of thing be used for charities. You know, a lot because I’m involved in a lot of different philanthropy. I’ve never seen it used in business. And so I like the innovation that you’re bringing of this is an industry you’re already familiar with. You know what the challenges are with the hotels, with the restaurants, with people in the industry.

00;15;12;12 – 00;15;16;12
Anika
And chances are if somebody goes on one of these trips and they love it, they’re going to come back.

00;15;16;29 – 00;15;17;20
Marco Torres
Right.

00;15;17;24 – 00;15;36;21
Anika
We’re creatures of habit. We like to have you know, I think like I have Friday night dates with my partner and we have like four restaurants that we like to go to our order from or, you know, thinking of that or like people like to go back to places that they enjoy going to or that they’ve had a great experience and so you’re helping create that, too.

00;15;37;22 – 00;16;16;10
Marco Torres
Yeah, absolutely. And that’s one of the reasons the hotels want to participate. They know people will come back and stay at the hotel in the future. Painful price, or they’ll book extra nights and so on. But, you know, speaking of charities, that’s another one of the big ways we teach a lot of our members to use our product, which is to lead by giving, and they can be supporting local charities and local fundraising opportunities of any kind from the from the football, you know, local high school football, you know, equipment, fundraising, to you name it, so they can step up and be building their personal brand or their or their business and saying, look,

00;16;16;10 – 00;16;34;21
Marco Torres
my company’s going to sponsor this fundraising. We’re going to provide you with you know, we’re going to give away five trips. And so we’re going to do this with an auction and we’re going to, you know, auction off the trips or we’re going to do a blind auction or whatever, or everybody who donates a minimum of $100 will get one of these trips, for example.

00;16;35;02 – 00;16;50;02
Marco Torres
And so now they get they may be in front of a captive audience the day of the event. And they can tell everybody, look, this is what I do. I’m an expert in real estate, this, that and the other and my firm is sponsoring these trips. So if any of you, you know, please bid on the trips, you’re going to have a wonderful time, et cetera.

00;16;50;02 – 00;17;17;06
Marco Torres
This is how they work. You’re going to be responsible for the taxes. But you know, other than that, you say you’re supporting a good cause and you’re going to be off on a good, great trip. By the way, if you need a real estate expert, if you need to do that, don’t forget me. And so they’re so they’re finding ways to use our incentives in a different way by by giving first versus versus, you know, and then they’re seen as the expert in their community and they get leads out of ’em.

00;17;17;28 – 00;17;27;18
Anika
Wonderful. So what has been the most surprising thing that you found in your journey of being an entrepreneur, having all of these different kinds of businesses and then where you are now?

00;17;28;08 – 00;17;49;21
Marco Torres
The surprising thing in my journey is well, I guess it’s been that I never knew I would enjoy. So my when I was in the restaurant business, when I was in the restaurant business, I got burnt out on people after half of, you know, I don’t remember how many years I was in that business, but I started to, like, dislike people.

00;17;49;22 – 00;17;49;29
Marco Torres
And I-

00;17;50;07 – 00;17;51;16
Anika
Oh.

00;17;52;13 – 00;18;16;00
Marco Torres
It’s like I don’t want to have anything to do with people anymore. But you know, this new business has turned reinvigorated that passion where I now, you know, I have a Facebook group with almost 28,000 members in it. I’m on, you know, events and zoom calls and live events. And I really enjoy the passion of helping entrepreneurs now succeed and help them with ideas.

00;18;16;00 – 00;18;36;14
Marco Torres
A lot of people call me the idea man. So I love to come up with ideas to help an entrepreneur think of new ways, new campaigns, how they can, you know, grow their business and then reap the rewards of success. You know, like Zig Ziglar used to say way back when, you know, you help enough other people and get what they want in life and you’ll get what you want automatically.

00;18;36;23 – 00;18;37;05
Marco Torres
So.

00;18;38;06 – 00;18;56;02
Anika
Yeah, that’s been a recurring theme on the podcast, too. I’ve had a few people come in and talk about giving and making sure you’re a giver, not just a taker, and that when you do help people, it just comes back so much more to every part of your life, including your business. So that’s those are some wise words.

00;18;56;25 – 00;19;08;22
Anika
Well, what is next for Marketing Boost and for you as an entrepreneur? Do you have other projects that you’re going to start working on as far you’re adding more things to marketing, boosting other areas that your clients need support?

00;19;09;03 – 00;19;50;12
Marco Torres
Great question, and absolutely. You know, for, for the last few years, yeah, we really focus on just the incentives, which is a tool that any entrepreneur can use. But what we ended up doing is now is we’re providing what we call marketing boost solutions, and we’re providing a full CRM platform, a complete all in one place, a place where you can you can manage your business from email marketing, text messaging, voicemail broadcasting, workflows, appointment to calendars, appointment setting, funnel builders, getting tongue tied here.

00;19;50;22 – 00;20;26;21
Marco Torres
So the whole Funnel Builder platform, everything and all of it’s integrated with the marketing boost incentives so that the incentives can be automated. So essentially it’s a system of automation we call the automationbooster.com and it takes your business and scales it to the next level. So everything can be automated, including your appointment, setting your calendars, your workflows, your email marketing, text messaging and the marketing boost incentives going out based on your call to action automatically and in addition to some other softwares to help business owners, you know, automate and drive versus just kind of stumble along.

00;20;27;01 – 00;20;56;04
Anika
Yeah, I think that’s fantastic because it is hard to know, OK, which, you know, which service do I want to use for automatic replies on my Instagram or my Facebook versus who do I use for text messaging clients and all of those things. And there are so many solutions. It’s harder through the noise and it I think it’s, you know, convenience, having a one stop shop where you can put everything in and you can see it all in one place and know exactly what’s performing, what’s not performing or what to change.

00;20;56;10 – 00;21;01;13
Anika
OK, the messaging is doing really well for this segment. Maybe I need to move it over to user for this segment too.

00;21;01;25 – 00;21;23;08
Marco Torres
Yeah, no. And in some ways it’s so frustrating because the the different platforms, they don’t communicate with each other, right? You’re emailing, you’re logging in constant contact or something. The email over here, you’re logging into simple texting over here to text message. Somebody opts out of their text message, but then they didn’t know they didn’t want to have you, you know, but now you’re still emailing them.

00;21;23;08 – 00;21;40;08
Marco Torres
So they complain, you know, so if it’s all in one place, it’s the way it should be where it’s all in the same platform. And then you log in to one place and you see you communicate with your people that were however they would prefer to be communicated with, whether it’s text, email, phone calls, the whole platform.

00;21;40;08 – 00;21;43;29
Marco Torres
It does it all. It’s amazing. So that’s also another thing we do.

00;21;44;11 – 00;21;58;01
Anika
Wonderful. Great, well can anybody join your Facebook group? Do you have to be a like a registered subscriber or can people join kind of get to know everybody else and then join?

00;21;58;02 – 00;22;21;07
Marco Torres
Absolutely. It’s free to join the Facebook group. Just go to Facebook and search for marketing boost the entrepreneur sales and marketing support group and that that’s free to join. And yeah, that’s one way to come in and get and get an idea of what the community is about, where we literally the business owners are there to help each other with ideas on and critique each other’s campaigns and stuff like that.

00;22;21;15 – 00;22;56;29
Marco Torres
Joining marketing boost, by the way, we went about middle of last year, we decided to go global and one of the things we did was lower our price. We were at 187 a month to have access to marketing boost and currently we went to $37 a month, which was the price we started at in 2017. So it’s only $37 a month and that we wanted to do that to make it easily or no brainer affordable price for any small entrepreneur or solopreneur anywhere in the world, whether they be in India Pakistan, Philippines, Australia or the US.

00;22;57;12 – 00;23;19;29
Marco Torres
We made it, you know, one price. So instead of being like the pharmaceuticals that charge more Americans and less to the Indians, yeah, we made it one low price for everybody and, and that’s helped us just literally start growing around with clients around the world. So it’s easy to join and very affordable. And the first thing you ought to do, if you do want to give it a shot, is give yourself a complimentary trip.

00;23;19;29 – 00;23;40;05
Marco Torres
And I’d recommend Cancun because the offers we have every day, the resort we have right there now, our is a three is a three diamond. I mean, it’s already triple A, 4 diamond resort in Cancun on the beach. 15 restaurants and bars, those gorgeous resorts. And it’s incredible for the for the value.

00;23;40;10 – 00;23;57;04
Anika
So yeah, no, that’s a good point. Try it yourself because then you can talk about it even more excitedly. And, you know, and with that expertize of having done it yourself when you are giving it to your clients. Well, anything else you want to share with our audience today before we sign off.

00;23;57;14 – 00;23;59;28
Marco Torres
I could give you an offer for your clients if I could do that.

00;23;59;29 – 00;24;00;28
Anika
Absolutely!

00;24;01;10 – 00;24;23;03
Marco Torres
So we’ve got a special offer for your clients here. If you’ll go to marketingboost.com/podcast. OK, you can get 30 days of marketing boost for only $1. Wow. I’ll give it a shot. Try it for a month for a dollar and give yourself the first complimentary trip and you got yourself a deal.

00;24;23;14 – 00;24;42;08
Anika
Nice. Yeah. And then, you know, I will also put that in the show notes so that everybody can find the Facebook group. Your different websites and the special offer very easily. And now I always ask one last question. Do you have a favorite quote?

00;24;42;18 – 00;25;01;20
Marco Torres
It my and I kind of just said it, but I missed the first part of it earlier. But the Zig Ziglar, in other words, the whole and I forgot exactly how his quote goes with the theme essentially is, again, to help other people get exactly what they want. And you’ll get what you want. Yeah. And yeah. So stay thirsty, my friends.

00;25;01;28 – 00;25;21;16
Anika
Yes. 100%. Marco, thank you so much for your time today. It was great learning about this other way. I mean, I’ve literally have only thought of doing this kind of stuff for nonprofit stuff, for fundraising. And so I love that you’re changing it and make it saying, Yeah, you can do it for that. But you can also really help your business.

00;25;21;25 – 00;25;22;09
Marco Torres
Absolutely.

00;25;22;09 – 00;25;25;17
Anika
Yeah. Yeah. Any final words? Anything else you want to share today?

00;25;26;05 – 00;25;28;08
Marco Torres
Oh, I think I’m good.

00;25;28;08 – 00;25;46;19
Anika
All right. Well, thank you so much to our audience for listening to another episode of Your Brand Amplified. I’m Anika Jackson here with Marco Torres from Marketing Boost. And I’ll be back next week. Want more? check out AmplifywithAnika.com or follow me on socials @AmplifywithAnika.

00;00;01;05 – 00;00;28;09
Anika
Welcome to Your Brand Amplified the podcast where we interview marketers, publicists and brands to learn their stories, what makes them tick and tips and tricks that make a difference. I’m so excited to welcome you back again to Your Brand Amplified. I’m Anika Jackson and I’m here today with Michael Harris. Bestselling author, multiple preneur and all around badass, if I may say that, based on just reading about you.

00;00;28;09 – 00;00;34;02
Anika
So I’m really excited to talk to you today and find out more about your story. So, Michael, welcome.

00;00;34;23 – 00;00;40;24
Michael Harris
Thank you, Anika. It’s really great to be here. As I mentioned before, I’m really excited to be on your show.

00;00;41;04 – 00;00;58;02
Anika
Oh, I love it. So please dove in. Tell us a little bit about yourself. I know you’ve had a very up and down journey you’ve done a lot of different things. Starting out as an entrepreneur when you were a kid, you know, yoga, many, many verticals.

00;00;58;25 – 00;01;33;01
Michael Harris
Well, I’m going to throw something out right now. Then I’ll talk a little bit about entrepreneurship. You know, there’s this concept in the world about ADHD right? That, you know, we can’t get focused on one thing in all of that. So a long time ago, I was able to rephrase that to nationally diverse. And then that gave me an opportunity to really focus on what I what I wanted to at one time but to celebrate that I had all these different interests, right?

00;01;33;05 – 00;01;33;17
Anika
Yeah.

00;01;33;28 – 00;01;46;25
Michael Harris
Yeah. So I wanted to throw that out because I like the term multi-preneur because I do. Even today, I have three different businesses that I’m working on. Mm hmm. And so I stay really busy.

00;01;47;13 – 00;02;15;28
Anika
I, I love that. And I’m going to say I did interview Peter Shankman a few many episodes ago, and that interview is one of the most odd and interesting ones I’ve done because his ADHD is so present. He’s, you know, all over the place, but it really weaves together a really beautiful narrative and I myself was diagnosed as an adult, and I was like, oh, my whole life makes so much more sense because I always did.

00;02;15;28 – 00;02;36;26
Anika
Like, I was always involved in a whole bunch of different activities. You know, and I was interested in doing so many different things. And so I love that you opened with that because I think we need to acknowledge that people, you know, have different abilities or different ways that our brains think and the neurodiversity should be celebrated and utilized.

00;02;36;26 – 00;02;39;14
Anika
Right. Instead, of just looked at as a negative.

00;02;40;00 – 00;03;00;23
Michael Harris
Well, yeah. Yeah. I was never diagnosed with it. I suspect that I probably could be. You know, I was fighting it for so long. I was fighting all these different interests that I have rather than the celebration of those different interests. Yeah. Yeah.

00;03;01;11 – 00;03;01;23
Anika
Nice.

00;03;02;29 – 00;03;09;22
Michael Harris
So one of the things that that you asked me was about starting my entrepreneurship early.

00;03;10;13 – 00;03;10;26
Anika
Yes.

00;03;11;06 – 00;03;47;14
Michael Harris
My dad growing up, he was an entrepreneur. He always had his own businesses probably some of the people out there would recognize some some of them because they made some pretty big impacts out there within the United States and Canada. And I won’t get too much into that. But I always learned and something dad always told us growing up, even as little kids as kind of planting these entrepreneurial seeds, you know, he was kind of a middle man and he would say, find something that people want and sell it to them.

00;03;47;22 – 00;04;13;12
Michael Harris
Mm hmm. Oh, OK. Well, here I am, six years old. Right? And we had some property we grew up outside of Portland, and we had some property. We had a lot of Blackberries on the property just wild blackberries. And I would go out there, you know, even three, hour, even five years old and pick all the blackberries. And I would come home covered with blackberries on my hands and my face.

00;04;14;09 – 00;04;40;01
Michael Harris
And you know, Mom said, oh, the Blackberries again. Yes, of course. And she would make these incredible BlackBerry pies, you know, the nice BlackBerry pies, nice and warm, vanilla ice cream on top. And all my friends would come over because they all said, well, Mrs. Harris, you make the best pies in the neighborhood, right? And then one day I said, Mom, I want my first job.

00;04;40;09 – 00;04;56;20
Michael Harris
So what? I said, I want to sell your BlackBerry pies. I said, I tell you what, I’ll go out there. I’ll pick the pies. You pay, come in, I’ll go around the neighborhood and sell them again. Dad, said find something people want and sell it to them.

00;04;56;21 – 00;05;03;03
Anika
Yeah. And something that you’re passionate about, too. You loved it. You love being outdoors. You loved picking the berries. Yeah.

00;05;03;06 – 00;05;33;00
Michael Harris
Yeah, absolutely. So I started selling BlackBerry pies door to door 1964, 65 a long time ago. Kind of dates me. It was a long time ago. And so I started selling door to door, and I probably should have talked to the Girl Scouts about this because even back then, before the Girl Scout cookies really got big, I was going door to door saying, How many pies do you want?

00;05;33;18 – 00;05;45;18
Michael Harris
Do you want to buy a pie? Yeah, but how many pies? The what? And of course, the Girl Scout cookies took off because of that phrasing that they started using was How many do you want?

00;05;47;00 – 00;05;48;08
Anika
Yeah. How can you say no?

00;05;48;14 – 00;05;49;08
Michael Harris
Yeah. Yeah.

00;05;49;10 – 00;05;49;20
Anika
You know.

00;05;51;00 – 00;06;14;08
Michael Harris
So the blackberries were my first entrepreneur journey? And then it went on from there. I used to buy and sell used lawnmowers. 12, 13 years old. The local Scotty’s Garden Center. People would bring in their lawnmowers as a trade, and they didn’t know what to do with them. So I’d go over there again. A dollar. I would pay a dollar for the lawnmower.

00;06;14;21 – 00;06;34;29
Michael Harris
I’d push them home about three or four blocks to back to our house. I’d push them home. And basically all of that we needed to do. Me and my friend Stan we would clean them up. We’d get rid of all the grass on them. We put a new spark plug in and we had a paper for 20 or 25 bucks with a 30 day guarantee we never got one back.

00;06;35;10 – 00;06;39;16
Anika
So you already knew about doing a 30 day guarantee at an early age.

00;06;39;27 – 00;06;53;20
Michael Harris
At an earlier age, yeah. So. And it worked. Mm hmm. Now, I can’t say that I always was an entrepreneur. I always had the entrepreneur spirit. Yeah.

00;06;54;13 – 00;06;56;03
Anika
And what’s the difference.

00;06;58;15 – 00;07;23;27
Michael Harris
Well, because I did get a few jobs along the way. Yeah. And that the last job I have I had, I left in 1995. Mm. Hmm. So it’s been a while since I was in any job and it’s probably because of that entrepreneurial spirit and the energy that Dad planted in us as kids to always be self-sufficient, being able to take care of ourselves.

00;07;24;10 – 00;07;52;22
Michael Harris
So I got a job. I was the assistant control of a small company was called Great Performance, and we built o different training programs for H.R., for larger corporations, thousand plus employees, government, etc. We had 50-55 employees depending upon the day. But right, right in that range. And then Mark struck a deal at the time with a larger publisher to sell the company for 7 million bucks.

00;07;52;23 – 00;08;20;08
Michael Harris
Well, this was late 1994. 7 million bucks then, It’s like probably 70 million now. I don’t, I don’t know what it was, but it was a lot of money. Mm hmm. Right. And I thought know, I manage the money. I was a system controller. I took care of all our credit lines or all that type of stuff. And Mark sold the company, and I’m thinking, Oh, we’re all going to get you know, a couple thousand bucks, maybe a five grand bonus, something like that for helping to sell it.

00;08;20;22 – 00;08;41;06
Michael Harris
And I was involved in that sale. And so at the end of the day, Mark took his money and left. Which, I don’t blame him. And at the same time, I thought that he could have paid, you know, even each of us. 2000 bucks, 50 employees. You know, it would have been a generous way to go.

00;08;41;10 – 00;08;41;22
Anika
Yeah.

00;08;42;21 – 00;09;07;12
Michael Harris
And I told the controller I said, I don’t like this. I’m going to leave. And he says, Oh, we got all this money now, because there was a larger corporation, they had about 400 million in cash at the time. So they were fairly large, and they could have really, really seeded us a lot. But within six months, we were down to three employees I saw the writing on the wall, and so I left.

00;09;07;26 – 00;09;10;00
Michael Harris
I never turned back.

00;09;10;07 – 00;09;10;21
Anika
Nice.

00;09;10;25 – 00;09;25;20
Michael Harris
Now, this is my ADHD or my passionately diverse side. Never look back. I did some training years ago with the Maasai warrior chief from Kenya. Wow. And the word Maasai means never look back.

00;09;25;22 – 00;09;26;16
Anika
Oh, my gosh.

00;09;27;01 – 00;09;42;08
Michael Harris
Yeah. So it’s like, oh, when he said that, it made so much sense because he didn’t even know what his birthday was. Wow. This Masai warrior. Right. So I won’t go too far down that rabbit hole, but the thought popped up, so I wanted to share it.

00;09;42;17 – 00;10;31;00
Anika
Yeah. No, I love that. And I feel like, based on all of the different topics that you can speak on. Yeah, we could go down many rabbit holes. I’ll have to bring you back on, but you know, I have to do a different podcast. Yeah. So. And I think that’s something that I know I’m not alone in feeling, is that push pull of, I have these ideas. I’m, you know, I have this entrepreneurial spirit, but then, you know, I’ll do something else. Like, I just had my own company that I built up during the pandemic and then I just merged with another firm because, you know, during the pandemic, there were some great things that happened. There were some not great things that happened and as an entrepreneur, when you’re left holding the bag, no matter what, if people are paying or not paying, you know, sometimes you have to make those hard decisions.

00;10;31;00 – 00;10;46;23
Anika
And so I said, OK, I’m going to go into this company where I have a great role. I can help build that company up. But it’s also I love it and I love the people and everything I’m doing. But then at the same time, I’m also like, what’s that other entrepreneurial thing that I want to be doing? Right.

00;10;46;23 – 00;11;14;04
Anika
So so managing that push pull, I think is an interesting dynamic for people who want to be entrepreneurs or thinking about it. And the fact I like that you brought up find something that people want and then you can sell to them because you have to have passion. But if people in the market don’t want what you have and you don’t know how to sell it properly, then that’s going to, you know, it’s not really going to work.

00;11;15;13 – 00;11;21;18
Michael Harris
And even in that last sentence, that’s a show in itself. Yeah. I just heard you say it. Yeah.

00;11;22;14 – 00;11;35;03
Anika
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So, OK, so you didn’t look back, you left and you went from assistant controller to many other worlds. Spiritual world. World of yoga.

00;11;35;21 – 00;11;36;01
Michael Harris
Yeah.

00;11;37;00 – 00;11;37;15
Anika
Yeah.

00;11;38;08 – 00;12;04;25
Michael Harris
In inside of that, too. I worked closely with some investors on bringing you some capital for some different projects. I was also doing a lot of option trading and trading and I made a lot of money in the option market, primarily doing call options. I didn’t like put options. I did one thing at the time, but I did that one option trading very well.

00;12;04;29 – 00;12;26;20
Michael Harris
So I was able to stop working for a couple of years and I was diving into yoga as, as I was growing up again, not going too far down that rabbit hole. You know, I had had some health condition I had a massive water skiing accident and I had 60% of my liver removed.

00;12;26;21 – 00;12;27;09
Anika
Oh wow.

00;12;27;14 – 00;12;43;29
Michael Harris
I was in a coma. I had a near-death experience. I died and I came back. And then I started drinking as a teenager and getting into a lot of trouble with all of that and then I had additional health conditions where they’re going to cut off my legs.

00;12;44;29 – 00;12;45;21
Anika
Oh, my gosh.

00;12;45;21 – 00;13;13;11
Michael Harris
I had vascular disease and both my legs were blocked and I was on a cain. And the reason I say that is what I heard you talk about, these other things that I was doing in the yoga. I started doing yoga in 1987 and it changed everything, you know, I loved it. I loved doing the practice even right from the first, and I did it actually in a rehabilitation center.

00;13;13;11 – 00;13;37;12
Michael Harris
That was the it’s called Critical Majority Center. I went there because my legs and started walking and started doing yoga and I just felt good. I liked the feeling that I was experiencing. I never would have thought that I would do yoga or dove deeper into it. And so in the nineties, as I left that one company, I was doing more and more yoga.

00;13;37;20 – 00;14;01;22
Michael Harris
I started leading classes. I took a couple of smaller teacher trainings, and then I took a teacher training with some of the people out there might have heard of him, guy named Bikram Bikram Yoga, and I was one of the first 100 Bikram teachers. Oh, wow. Now I went not to become a teacher. I wasn’t going to teach him.

00;14;02;00 – 00;14;25;29
Michael Harris
I had no interest in teaching. I went because I wanted to heal my body. I wanted to get rid of any residual pain in my legs or back pain and really discovered, you know, again, within two weeks of going to the training during yoga, essentially four to 6 hours a day completely healed me within about two weeks, 12 years of pain.

00;14;25;29 – 00;14;58;02
Michael Harris
I was just like, it was gone. Right? I ended up being the speaker at our graduation at the Olympic Park down in Los Angeles on Olympic Blvd. And I was a speaker. I’ve always kind of spoken a lot in some way, shape or form. And if we have a moment, I’ll touch on that in a bid to and then as I went back to Portland, because I was living in Portland at the time, the local studio, the owner of the studio said, Why don’t you teach I said, I don’t really want to teach.

00;14;58;02 – 00;15;21;13
Michael Harris
So I said, Well, if you teach, you know, a couple times a week and we’ll pay you and then you’ll get free yoga. And I said, Sure, why not? I mean, what else do I have to do? A year later, I had my first yoga studio and this is something I heard you say a little while ago, too, is now how do we sell to them?

00;15;21;16 – 00;15;47;18
Michael Harris
Before I knew anything, I would have a notebook behind my counter, right? Somebody would come in, say, I’m John would come in and say, you know, I got to tell you, I really love this stuff. My back pain has gone away. My wife is happier with me. My boss, the accounting firm, is happier with me. And he would say all these things and I would go write these things down in a notebook.

00;15;48;09 – 00;16;27;11
Michael Harris
Again, not knowing really a lot about marketing at that time, really deeper educational type level. You know, I never went to school for marketing, but I knew Mark. Yeah. So I would write these things down. And then when I created my website or send emails out or I did little fliers, I would take the words that my students and the clients were saying in intersperse some in what I was doing, and I found my business exploded nice, literally exploding because I was using their language.

00;16;27;11 – 00;17;04;24
Michael Harris
Right? And so then I started having other studio owners around the world asking me to help them. And so I would help them and, you know, they would just call and I would say, hey, do this, do this, do that. And there their business would start exploding, too. Well, I ended up opening another studio. They’re both still open after all these years, which I’m really happy I sold them, but they’re both still open I then started a company called Yoga Business Expert, and so I was a business side of yoga.

00;17;04;29 – 00;17;32;15
Michael Harris
I clients all over the world and some of them I had revenue share arrangements because I saw the writing on the wall that, you know, if I’m going to coach them for a thousand bucks a month, or am I going to share in the revenue that we generate? Because oftentimes it was more than that. You know, I could oftentimes go in and turn a business around to where in a couple, two, three, four months they were up hundred, 200, 300%.

00;17;32;19 – 00;17;43;05
Michael Harris
And I gave them permission. I had some of my clients actually say, thank you for giving me permission to make money. This is yoga. I didn’t know I could make money.

00;17;43;22 – 00;17;45;03
Anika
Yeah, yeah.

00;17;45;07 – 00;18;01;17
Michael Harris
I said, Well, look at it this way. I said, The more money you have coming in means the more students you have in your classes and the more people you are helping. And it was just like people’s light bulbs would go off in your head.

00;18;01;28 – 00;18;23;12
Anika
I think a lot of times that’s when there are so many things we could be talking about. In this interview. I’m like, I want to talk about this and this and this, but that our internal resistance to money, especially if we have that kind of servant leadership attitude or that part where we want to give and we feel guilty if we’re keeping money for ourselves or making too much money.

00;18;23;12 – 00;18;43;17
Anika
And what you’re saying is exactly, you know, what we all have to learn it’s OK to have money. It’s OK to have and you have to nurture yourself. And part of that is making money before you can. The more you can nurture yourself and live in that, then the more you have for other people.

00;18;43;27 – 00;18;44;17
Michael Harris
Absolutely.

00;18;44;24 – 00;19;07;08
Anika
And I think we forget that. And we always want to like I know I get in this as well with some of my non-profit work or even some potential clients. Like I want to help everybody. And you can’t help everybody unless you are in the space where you’re helping yourself and you’re setting, you know, those kind of barriers and limits and opportunities to receive yourself.

00;19;07;18 – 00;19;07;26
Michael Harris
Yeah.

00;19;08;13 – 00;19;32;06
Anika
But there is something else that you touched on. Now I have to see if I can remember what it was. I think it was that the third party validation. Yeah. So and this goes back to I know one of the things you like to talk about and something that’s really important to me is storytelling. And that’s why I’m in marketing PR because I love to share people’s stories and I love to hear them and see what I can learn from them and what other people can learn from them.

00;19;32;20 – 00;19;59;00
Anika
So you had all these all this business acumen you started doing yoga to help yourself. Then you found that you could help other people who had yoga practices or make money by instituting these business practices that you did, which then led to them being able to help and heal more people. So it’s a whole circle taking you back to where you started with your yoga journey, and that’s really beautiful.

00;19;59;00 – 00;20;19;11
Anika
And that’s something that we say all the time to clients in marketing and PR is that third party validation is so important getting the testimonials, the stories, getting somebody else to write about you or interview you so that it’s not just you saying, I’m fantastic. Here’s why here’s why you should buy my product, but actually see what all these other people are saying about it.

00;20;19;13 – 00;20;42;23
Michael Harris
Yeah, yeah. It’s interesting you mentioned that. Again, this is probably show 4.0 or something like that. One of the things that I would do say you would come in and you are a new student right at the studio and you said, Oh, I’ve got some knee pain from writing for the last ten years. I love running, but my knee hurts without saying anything to you.

00;20;43;10 – 00;21;10;26
Michael Harris
I’m thinking inside my head, OK, I’m going to help you overcome your knee pain. And in six months from now you’re going to be our student of the month. So I would do whatever I could do right up front to help you overcome whatever it might be, knowing that you could be a great student of the month and perhaps help other people that have knee issues overcome those as well.

00;21;12;18 – 00;21;20;18
Michael Harris
So I don’t have to wait till you get the results to try to get you to get the results. Right. Does that make. Sense?

00;21;20;18 – 00;21;21;21
Anika
Yeah, definitely.

00;21;22;08 – 00;21;22;16
Michael Harris
Yes.

00;21;22;29 – 00;21;30;16
Anika
Fascinating. So you are also I don’t know where in the timeline we shift to bestselling author.

00;21;33;19 – 00;21;59;05
Michael Harris
I had a lot of friends tell me over the years because of my experiences, because of what I went through growing up and my health conditions and my other struggles that that I had with drinking and all of that, that I should write a book, I shouldn’t be alive today. I’m 63 years old. I was dead at 12 years old and then again in my twenties, and I shouldn’t be here.

00;21;59;05 – 00;22;22;26
Michael Harris
I mean, really, I’m extremely blessed and grateful to still be here. And so it was suggested that I write this book. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, in my mind it was about ten years and I write a few things down, nothing real serious, and I don’t remember exactly who it was, but I heard something about writing your book in 90 days.

00;22;23;13 – 00;22;32;12
Michael Harris
Hmm. And so I made a commitment to myself one day that I was going to write my book in 90 days. It took me 79 days to write.

00;22;33;17 – 00;22;37;17
Anika
And writing was. Was that the only thing you were doing? Pretty much like-

00;22;38;00 – 00;23;00;17
Michael Harris
No, not, not, not at all. because of my passion being passionately diverse, right? I did it 2 hours a day. Wow. I was the guy in the corner at Starbucks. I would go down every morning in Starbucks for 2 hours and sit there and drink my coffee or my tea and write for 2 hours. And that’s what I did. That’s how I wrote my book.

00;23;00;23 – 00;23;25;17
Michael Harris
In Coffee Shop. Yeah. That was the first book, Falling Down, Getting Up. And then later, Rick Frishman, which again, another story. I won’t get too far into it. He was my original publisher and wrote another book called Expert Success Solution. So I’m one of the contributing authors of this book as well. Both of the books are of number one.

00;23;26;13 – 00;23;49;02
Anika
Amazing. So four books and I know we have some mutual connections in the book world. When you wrote these books, were you writing it just to share your story? For the first one, particularly to share your story, did you know that it would become a bestseller? You know, did you want to use it as a marketing tool?

00;23;49;02 – 00;23;54;15
Anika
Because I know that’s something that entrepreneurs do a lot, as well as short form books to use as marketing tools.

00;23;56;09 – 00;24;18;13
Michael Harris
My the first book Falling Down, Getting Up. I didn’t think of it as a marketing tool at the time. It was more about telling my story and getting it out, and maybe somebody would read it and find some inspiration or some motivation out of that book. And that’s happened multiple times.

00;24;20;25 – 00;24;23;01
Michael Harris
If I can briefly go down a short rabbithole.

00;24;23;06 – 00;24;25;07
Anika
Absolutely. Go down, go down them.

00;24;26;19 – 00;24;59;29
Michael Harris
One of the things and I did some storytelling education at Merrill Hurst College years ago, I discovered in my storytelling that I’ve been telling stories my whole life. Everybody has to. And so this mystery of telling stories or public speaking is not so mysterious at all. So I’m going to go back to second grade. Well, what happened when I came back from spring break, my dad had business in Hawaii.

00;24;59;29 – 00;25;26;11
Michael Harris
So we went over to Hawaii and I spent my time surfing and, you know, ten years old chasing 12 year old girls on the beach. You know, catamaran and doing all these different things. So we get back to school after spring break and the teacher says, now it’s show and tell time. Everybody’s got one minute to tell your story of what you did on spring break.

00;25;26;14 – 00;26;36;05
Michael Harris
Well, at the time, I didn’t think, oh, wow, great. I’m going to be a storyteller, you know, and all that kind of stuff was just like, what did I what could I tell? What could I not tell? Within that one minute? So I talked mostly about surfing and about learning how to surf and Wendall and Nathan, our surfing instructors and all that and I realized that, you know, in my storytelling time later on at Merrill Hurst that we’ve really been telling stories our whole life and that excitement and that joy and just getting that story out because we want to tell that story. Now we can get into -that’s a short story. I could take that same short story of talking about surfing and make it a bigger story and talk about the whole trip right? The girls, the sea, cucumbers, the coral, all these different things. So I discovered really the secret to creating a short one minute story, 10 minute story, 20 minutes story, a key note story, a book.

00;26;36;29 – 00;26;38;04
Michael Harris
Interesting, right?

00;26;38;07 – 00;26;38;19
Anika
Yeah.

00;26;38;27 – 00;26;39;08
Michael Harris
Yeah.

00;26;39;27 – 00;26;48;26
Anika
Yeah. It makes a lot it’s a lot easier to grasp when you break it down into the parts.

00;26;49;09 – 00;27;00;23
Michael Harris
Right, right. And I suspect you probably had some show and tell time as a kid, too, in school. And most people have at one point or the other, they had teachers that had show and tell.

00;27;01;02 – 00;27;01;11
Anika
Yeah.

00;27;01;22 – 00;27;21;10
Michael Harris
So we all know how to do it and it’s reinvigorating what we already know how to do. So even like when we train people now because that’s part of what we do is speaker training and podcast training is helping people define and tell their stories in different periods of time.

00;27;21;16 – 00;27;43;18
Anika
I love it. And that’s a different way of looking at some of the things that I like to do with is when I’m working with somebody, talk to them about their story. But then also when we’re looking at their product, what are their personas for the people that they’re trying to target and what story do they want to tell each of those people?

00;27;43;19 – 00;28;02;21
Anika
Right, because it might be a slightly different story for the consumer versus an investor versus a journalist. And how do you share that in this big world of marketing? And there’s podcast and social media and so many different ways to tell your message, to tell your story and to get your message out. And each of them are important.

00;28;02;28 – 00;28;16;03
Anika
And so if you can, we have a narrative that shares a little bit here but then it links to this and then you reinforce it here. That’s a lot more powerful and compelling than just, you know, using one of those aspects right.

00;28;16;12 – 00;28;29;09
Michael Harris
Right. You know, it’s almost like, you know, in the newspaper they have headlines, which is a book. Right. And I don’t know if this is true or not. It seems like headlines have gotten longer.

00;28;30;16 – 00;28;49;13
Anika
Because they know people are going to read that fifth or sixth or seventh paragraph perhaps. You know, they need to get as much information. And I think in the first headline, maybe the sub header and then the first three paragraphs, not everybody’s going to flip to the next page. Or, you know, so cover story. Then you flipped a page for page nine or whatever it is.

00;28;50;01 – 00;28;56;28
Anika
I think about this as I’m reading the paper. And also when we’re thinking about writing things with clients so. Yeah.

00;28;57;25 – 00;29;28;19
Michael Harris
Yeah, right. You got that short story in the headline, which then the person reads that three paragraphs or the 30 paragraphs or whatever gets. If I can mention, I did something years ago at the yoga studio early on and it was an Avatar type exercise. And again, I didn’t know much about it, but I was thinking, OK, who is my ideal client, Mary at 37 year old nurse, which makes $75,000 a year.

00;29;28;19 – 00;29;54;24
Michael Harris
She’s married to Bob, she has two kids, Sally and I forget with Sally and Jeff they are five and seven years old. They have a dog, you know, on and on and on. Very, very specific about the client. I wanted to serve she had a bum me from running and needed a place. She loved her family and her husband, but wanted her own place for herself in the midst of a busy life.

00;29;56;10 – 00;30;15;14
Michael Harris
About 30 days later, Mary came walking in and she was a nurse at the hospital. Oh, my God, he’s awake. Everything that I had read. So I began to again understand the power of who we want to serve. Yeah. And how to attract them to what we’re doing to help serve them.

00;30;16;27 – 00;30;40;02
Anika
Yeah. I mean, visual visualization, writing it down, putting it into the universe. Manifest. Manifesting your ideal client. And I think there’s a lot that’s very powerful in that because when you’re thinking about that stuff, you’re not just sitting still and waiting for it to happen. You are actively doing things and putting things out into the world to make them happen.

00;30;40;12 – 00;31;06;00
Michael Harris
Right? So, yeah, but my brother was one of the authors of The Secret you’re probably familiar with. Oh, yeah. So when Rhonda Byrne went to write that book, she approached my brother and said, Will you help with the book and where you contribute in the book as well? A lot of people throw rocks at the book, you know, Law of Attraction and all these things, and it’s an easy book to throw rocks at out there in the world.

00;31;06;09 – 00;31;25;29
Michael Harris
I don’t mean literally. And John Assaraf came up with a different idea along with that because it’s in the book, but people don’t really see it. But I heard you say it. It was called The Law of Goya. The Law of Goya is Get Off Your Ass.

00;31;26;29 – 00;31;31;12
Anika
I that was actually on my list to ask you about the Law of Goya. Yeah.

00;31;31;26 – 00;31;53;00
Michael Harris
So you actually got to go out there and do something. You just write down this avatar for Mary, the nurse, without actually doing something. So I had to take Mary the nurse. I had to put her on my website or that concept. I didn’t write Mary the nurse website or in my emails or in my print or my fliers.

00;31;53;16 – 00;32;00;22
Michael Harris
To attract that person. I had to do something rather than just write out who she was. Right?

00;32;01;09 – 00;32;01;17
Anika
Yeah.

00;32;02;02 – 00;32;02;10
Michael Harris
Yeah.

00;32;02;27 – 00;32;07;29
Anika
Wow. Fascinating. OK, so I want to talk about Quantum Leaps.

00;32;08;14 – 00;32;17;06
Michael Harris
Ah, quantum leap. Yes. This comes back to, to nature. You know, have you ever blushed?

00;32;18;06 – 00;32;18;14
Anika
Yeah.

00;32;19;02 – 00;32;50;25
Michael Harris
Yeah. So blushing is a change of state. So science doesn’t use the terminology quantum leap. They use the terminology quantum jump. Quantum Leap is more kind of with laypeople. Quantum jump again, it’s a change state. So if we blushed, it’s an instant change of state. If we get angry, it’s an instant change. Of state. You know, there’s so many different ways to talk about it.

00;32;50;25 – 00;33;18;22
Michael Harris
There’s what’s called the transformation now. The transformation now is called the white northern owlers. there’s white and northern and white southern. It’s an now actually in Africa. So this particular owl, you know, it’s kind of a normal sized owl and it can sit there, but it can shrink itself down instantly and make it look make it look like a branch or it can make itself puff it up to make it look really big.

00;33;19;21 – 00;33;46;15
Michael Harris
So there’s an example in nature of a quantum jump a change of state, right? And they do it for different reasons. I mentioned a sea cucumber. Sea cucumber. You know, it can be soft most of the time, but if a predator comes along, it can hard itself up instantly like a rock. So like if an eel clamps on it or something tries to get a hold of it, it feels like a rock.

00;33;46;15 – 00;34;16;14
Michael Harris
And let’s go. Right, and they’re chameleons. I mean, there’s so many examples in nature and within ourselves to when we take those quantum leap. So what if we take that same concept, whether it’s in our business, whether it’s in our relationships, maybe somebody’s struggling in a relationship and you just make up your mind that it’s going to change. Yeah. And you can very I mean, just like you can change it like that.

00;34;17;04 – 00;34;43;11
Michael Harris
What if what if you’re going along and you’re not making any money? But if you make this one shift, one shift and there’s many examples, I can give you a list, make one shift. You can double your revenue in a month. Right. So this idea, why not again, apply it to our everyday life, to whatever it is that we’re doing, business relationship health.

00;34;43;25 – 00;34;52;28
Michael Harris
I made a decision on my health at one point. Literally overnight, my health started changing. Amazing. Happens all the time.

00;34;53;18 – 00;35;24;21
Anika
I think first of all, thank you. That was the most clear description of Quantum, right? Because I think most people are like, what? What does that even mean? It’s such a nebulous concept. So many times so really appreciate that. And I just love the way that you parlayed that into talking about how you can shift things make you just have to make the decision.

00;35;24;21 – 00;35;47;24
Anika
But I think that’s where a lot of people get stuck is they’re afraid to make that decision. They’re afraid to take that leap. They’re afraid to take that step. So what are some ways I know that you work on approach and you know, a lot of you know, you do so many things that we would be on for hours really to talk about to talk about your journey and all of the good that you’re putting back in to serve other people.

00;35;48;03 – 00;36;04;08
Anika
But how what are some ways that somebody can get past when they realize that there’s a barrier and they just can’t take that step? Because I see it. I mean, I’m guilty of it. I have friends who are guilty of it who know if I just did this, this and this my health would be back. I wouldn’t be depressed.

00;36;04;08 – 00;36;10;17
Anika
I would have, what, X, Y, Z expectation, and they just can’t get themselves there.

00;36;11;01 – 00;36;38;05
Michael Harris
Yeah. This, this sounds kind of. Yeah, you got to make the decision first. I mean, it just it sounds so silly, simple kind of thing, but you really got to make that decision. Like, if there’s things that I want to change in my life that I want to do differently, I have to make that decision first, and then I need to act on it.

00;36;39;17 – 00;37;06;18
Michael Harris
I really need to act on it, even if I have fear myself, even if I’m uncertain, even if I’m afraid. Well, if I do this, then this person is going to think this about me. You know, all those different thoughts that come into our head. And to me, if we’re getting nudged to do something, maybe the universe is telling you this is the time to do it, and you just do it.

00;37;07;00 – 00;37;10;16
Anika
You just GOYA.

00;37;10;26 – 00;37;28;19
Michael Harris
And again, I love talking about GOYA, and I’ve got tons of different little stories. Les Brown always says Never make a story without a point and never tell a point without a story. And I love that idea. If I can divert again just for a moment.

00;37;28;19 – 00;37;29;08
Anika
Absolutely.

00;37;29;24 – 00;37;57;25
Michael Harris
I read a book as a kid, and in hindsight, I think it really affected me over the years. And the book was the complete Sherlock Holmes. And in the Sherlock Holmes story, you got Sherlock Holmes, and he would go in there, investigate these different situations and different crimes, but primarily by looking at the situations in a way that most people weren’t looking at yeah.

00;37;58;20 – 00;38;24;09
Michael Harris
So what I take a look at a sea cucumber, I go, What can that teach us about taking a quantum leap or an owl or I can get into what a rice bowl can teach us about taking a quantum leap and manifesting what we wanted in our life. We have those things or the idea that you know, in second grade at show and tell time, we’re learning how to do public speaking and storytelling.

00;38;24;09 – 00;38;46;15
Michael Harris
Without realizing it. So it’s taking what we already have and already know and using. So if somebody wants to make a change most of the time I will suggest they already know what it is. They’ve already got it, but it’s just learning how to use.

00;38;47;25 – 00;38;48;05
Anika
Yeah.

00;38;48;15 – 00;38;52;15
Michael Harris
All right. I hope that answers the questions. I kind of feel like I-

00;38;52;24 – 00;39;05;25
Anika
No, it does. It does. I think that, you know, each person has to decide for themselves and they have to, like you said, and they have to acknowledge and then they have to just take action.

00;39;06;02 – 00;39;06;08
Michael Harris
Just do it.

00;39;06;20 – 00;39;09;06
Anika
Taking action is that’s the part where people stumble.

00;39;09;14 – 00;39;09;24
Michael Harris
Yeah.

00;39;10;01 – 00;39;33;18
Anika
So I, I know we’re about out of time and I wanted to give you the opportunity to share some of the resources that you have with our community. And I know you have some things you want, invite people into and talk a little bit about that and like what you’re doing now. I mean, you still have your hands in so many things, but you, you do help people get to that next level.

00;39;35;12 – 00;39;37;13
Anika
Make more sales. You know, coach.

00;39;38;00 – 00;40;07;29
Michael Harris
Yeah. One of the things that I’m really focused on right now is endless stages, and I’m co-founder in this company called Endless Stages with another individual that I met a number of years ago, and he grew up in the entertainment industry. He was started acting as a kid and he was like the teenager in Freddy versus Jason and he’s been in a number of different shows was recently in a Hallmark movie.

00;40;07;29 – 00;40;36;17
Michael Harris
He’s done a lot of public speaking. So he grew up with the entertainment industry framework as far as public speaking and talking and, you know, creating scripts and timelines and all these different things. And then I grew up, you know, telling stories storytelling, teaching people. I’ve literally taught about 7000 people how to overcome fear. And speaking so combined, we’re really good combination.

00;40;37;16 – 00;41;04;12
Michael Harris
My feeling is right now in the world that stories are important. So even like my story, my falling down, getting up, it’s not just a story about my story, it’s a story about opening up and letting go of this energy that’s holding us back. Much of what’s in there, you know, was holding me back. And by writing that out, it shifted that energy nice.

00;41;04;13 – 00;41;32;07
Michael Harris
Right? So what we do today is we help people primarily as podcasters getting on podcasts understanding the process of podcasting, understanding how to create stories where we’re using some of these industry frameworks and some other ideas on the actual creation of the story and how to do it again. That’s another show to hand as well as public speaking in general.

00;41;32;07 – 00;41;40;08
Michael Harris
We love working with authors, coaches, experts, entrepreneur type people and getting their stories out.

00;41;41;00 – 00;42;06;19
Anika
Michael, thank you so much for being on our show today. And audience, please go to Endlessstages.com, a free group for authors, coaches, experts and entrepreneurs that want to get their message out into the world. I can’t wait to join the group myself, and I’ll be back again next week. Want more? Check out AmplifywithAnika.com or follow me on socials @AmplifywithAnika.